A Civil War Allusion?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996
From: David Carlton
Subject: Query: A Civil War Allusion?
Listers,
I must say this quote escapes me, but it sure sounds like it originally came from Jeb Stuart, except we've now heard it from that well-known Civil War buff Pat Buchanan, in his New Hampshire primary victory speech:
"Do not wait for orders from headquarters. Mount up everybody and ride to the sound of the guns."
Can somebody here point me to a source? It's driving me bats.
David L. Carlton
Associate Professor of History
Vanderbilt University
P.O. Box 1523, Sta. B
Vanderbilt University
Nashville, TN 37235
(615) 322-3326
carltodl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996
From: David Canfil
Subject: Re: "Riding to the sound of the guns..."--3 replies
All of the West Point educated officers - and many others who were well read - would have been familiar with the adage about "riding toward the sound of the guns", as it dates from the Napoleanic era.
I have not had enough Espresso this morning to stimulate my neuro-ROM, so be a bit cautious with the following information.
I *think* the saying may have first been applied to one of Napolean's generals. I cannot recall offhand which one it was. I believe he had, or claimed to have, a tendency to "ride towards the sound of the guns".
This describes the tactically efficacious behaviour of Marshal Louis Nicholas Davout on several fields of battle. It is what Marshal Emmanuel de Grouchy did not do effectively at the Battle of Waterloo. Wellington's Prussian ally, Gebhard L. von Blucher, did it instead.
"Riding to the sound of the guns" subsequently became part of the idiom of the 19th century. I have encountered the expression many times in the period literature - and occasionally in the present era, as in the remark that you attributed to Buchanan.
In terms of it being a meaningful military adage, it conveys some subtle and complex nuances. Taken at its surface meaning, it implies a bold decision that an audacious commander might take when he is detached from other elements of his army, or when he is otherwise enveloped in the "fog of war".
Telegraphic communications and flag signals were not generally effective means of communication in the actual turbulent flow dynamics of a 19th century battle. Telegraph lines could not of course keep units that were on the move in immediate communication with other elements. Flag signals were obscured by terrain and by gun smoke. So, hence, couriers were the most common means of conveying orders, reports and other communications. And commanders often had to make immediate, spur-of-the-moment decisions.
Moving "toward the sound of the guns" was sometimes the best thing that could be done, in order to sway the outcome of an erupting engagement. But there were many hazards. The deployment of the enemy's forces might not be known. The enemy commander might desire to draw your army into a heavy commitment at a certain point, enticing you to move toward the "sound of the guns". But there might be nasty surprises waiting on one or both flanks, or there might be hidden reserves to shore up the defenses as required, and to unleash counter-attacks from various directions. Lee was quite adroit at such tricks.
Commanders on both sides were aware of the possibilities, and the hazards, so they were often wary.
There were feints and "demonstrations", either of which might involve eruptions of cannon fire.
J.E.B. Stuart might have used the expression "Do not wait for orders from headquarters. Mount up everybody and ride to the sound of the guns."
If he did, it would only have been in the context of a specific situation. Stuart was audacious, but this remark would not characterize his general attitude concerning either "headquarters" or the revelation of an enemy engagement. Cavalry were extremely vulnerable to both guns and to fire from massed infantry, and they were not prone to go charging off into either sort of force if they could help it.
It is the sort of remark that Custer might have made, or Kearny, or a few other Union commanders as well - in specific circumstances.
Sumner moved his infantry towards the "sound of the guns" at Sharpsburg, and walked into an even worse fate than the Union I Corps or XIIth Corps had suffered earlier.
Stonewall Jackson's Corps did not have the opportunity to move toward the "sound of the guns" on 26 June 1862, when A.P. Hill's men were going against Porter's defensive position on Beaver Dam Creek, even though they were only some three miles away. It was very late in the day. The eruption of the guns had but a short duration and the lay of the land made the sound carry in a confusing way. The two elements of the army were not in communication with each other, and most of Jackson's men had already established bivouac. So, hence, an opportunity was lost to strike into the Porter's exposed flank, Hill's men were repulsed with great loss. Porter withdrew to Gaines Mill, where his lines would be broken the following day, but only after again inflicting worse casualties than he suffered. The subsequent battles of the "Seven Days" would see McClellan's army withdrawing back across the Peninsula towards the sea, but in good order.
In a thermonuclear exchange, as long as you can exclaim "What was THAT?!!!", you might be alright.
Rgds. David Canfil
Oxford
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I believe that it is George Armstrong Custer, though I can't come up with the source at the moment. I'm not sure if it was said during or after the Civil War but I'm pretty sure it was him.
--Steve Moerland
University of Kentucky
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Don't have time to check this out fully, but it sounds more like Jackson than Stuart--and we know that Pat has a portrait of Jackson (and I think Marse Robert) in his house. March to the sound of the guns resonates for me with Stonewall--think he said it or write it. May come from the Seven Days--in which case he did not march to the sound, but fell asleep while chewing a biscuit, because he was exhausted (according, most recently, to Mark Neely).
Good luck chasing this one down!
Michael Chesson, U/Mass-Boston
omohundro@aol.com
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996
From: K. Startup
Subject: Re: "riding to the sound of the guns"
I really think that Napoleon's great cavalry commander, Marshal Murat, was the source of this epigram.
K. Startup
Williams Baptist College
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996
From: Terence Finnegan
Subject: Re: Riding to the sound of the guns...
Voilla!
My esteemed friend Col. M.L. Lanning (whose many books on VN and other military matters are much commended) has provided the following, concise information concerning the adage about "riding to the sound of the guns":
David:
Re: DICTIONARY OF MILITARY AND NAVAL QUOTATIONS by Robert D. Heinl, Jr. (Annapolis, MD: U.S. Naval Institute Press, 1967)
page 141 "March to the sound of the guns." credited to "Military Maxim"
but more likely page 140 "As a general rule, the maxim of marching to the sound of the guns is a wise one." by Baron Antoine H. Jomini 1779-1869, (a member of Marshal Ney's staff and the author of "Art of War") This quote is from Precis Politique el Militaire de la Campagne de 1815.
As you can see, it is "march" not "ride." Once again the damn cavalry tries to take credit from the infantry.
Regards,
Lee
Humanities & Social
Sciences Online
