From holoweb@h-net.msu.edu Thu Aug 22 15:18:09 1996 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:11:51 -0400 (EDT) From: HOLOCAUS Gopherspace <holoweb@h-net.msu.edu> To: HOLOCAUS Gopherspace <holoweb@h-net.msu.edu> Subject: log 9306
>From LISTSERV@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU Mon Aug 12 22:13:19 1996
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:52:26 -0500
From: "L-Soft list server at UICVM (1.8b)" <LISTSERV@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU>
To: H-NET Help <help@H-NET.MSU.EDU>
Subject: File: "HOLOCAUS LOG9306"
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1993 11:26:12 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jerry Rosenberg <JROSENBE@UA1VM.UA.EDU> Subject: films and photographs
A number of years ago Yad Vashem put out a microfiche photographic record of some 15,000 pictures from their files. It is available from Research Publictions, Inc., Drawer AB, 12 Lunar Drive , Woodbridge, CT 06525, (203) 397-2600. In terms of films and videos, Memories of the Camps from Frontline and #20 in the World at War series contain excellent footage on the process and consequences of extermination. I believe there is also some footage on the Einsatzgruppen killings on the Eastern front. Jerry Rosenberg
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 09:07:59 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Roger Simon <R_SIMON@UTOROISE.BITNET> Subject: Re: films and photographs
Recently I visited the new Museum of Tolerance-Beit HaShoah in Los Angles. The museum contains an extensive number of computer terminals connected to an elaborate software system and data base stored on lazer disc. THis system allows for the retrieval of photographs, documentary film, video, and text related to various aspects of the Holocaust. There are audio tracks available for the film and video.
While exploring this data base I retrieved two documentary films the first showing killings on the Eastern Front [the footage was tinged in sepia], the second was footage on the use of gas vans for mass killings. Both documents were accompanied by sound tracks...the first with gun shots and bullet whines, the second with the clanking and creaking of the metal doors of the van as they were opened and closed. I had seen similar visual scenes numereous times in documentary footage but I had never before seen any sequences with soundtracks. They were obviously dubbed [e.g. no voices were heard in the shooting scence in the first sequence].
I asked the staff member at the musuem information desk if he had any information on these visual sequences. He said that they were Soviet footage and in all probability "staged" sequences. He did not know if they had been additionally dubbed in the United States. Does anyone have information on "staged" Soviet documentary film related to the Holocaust and whether or not these sequences have circulated with audio tracks?
It should also be noted that no where in the computer data base is it mentioned that the film sequences are in all probability "staged".
R_SIMON
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 09:09:20 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Danny Keren <dzk@cs.brown.edu> Subject: Re: Hard evidence for the Final Solution?
I received a few e-mail requests about Holocaust related GIF files. This is the list of files I have; I hope the moderator will be kind enough to post it, although it's long...
I am looking into Steve Carr's suggestion as to where to store the GIFs, and will update the list when some arrangement is found. There was an offer for an additional site as well.
So, here is the list:
Aerial-View-Of-Krema-III.gif
[PHoH, p. 287] A detail from a photograph of the Auschwitz-Birkenau
extermination camp, taken by a US plane in 25 August 1944. Krema III
is clearly seen, and the roof vents through which the Zyklon-B was
introduced are visible. Later, Kremas II-V were destroyed by the SS
(see, for instance, "Chamber-Overview.gif").
Auschwitz-Glasses.gif
[AotH, Vol. I part 2, picture number 827] A pile of the victims
glasses at Auschwitz.
Auschwitz-Shoes.gif
Belsen-Mass-Grave.gif
Chamber-Overview.gif
Cremation-Pit.gif
Detail-Plan-Chamber-1.gif
Doc-Furnace-Capacity.gif
Door.gif
EG1.gif
EG2.gif
EG3.gif
EG4.gif
Furnaces.gif
German-Soldiers.gif
Inventory-Chamber.gif
Krema-IV-Overview.gif
Kristallnacht.gif
Majdanek.gif
Map-EinsatzGruppe-A.gif
Medical-Experiments-1.gif
Medical-Experiments-2.gif
Medical-Experiments-3.gif
Medical-Experiments-4.gif
Plan-Chamber-1.gif
Resettlement-Of-Jews.gif
Comments inside square brackets [...] are mine.
Radio message 13
SS Garrison Radio Station Auschwitz
Origin WVHA [SS economic administration head office]
Received 2nd October 1942 in the Kommandantur of Auschwitz Concentration camp
The movement authorization for one 5 Ton truck with trailer to
Dessau and back in order to pick up material for the resettlement
of the Jews, is hereby accorded.
The authorization is to be given to the driver.
Liebehenschel
SS Lieutenant Colonel
Permanent representative of the head
of the service with the rank of Waffen SS
Lieutenant General
For file [That's what the F.D.R initial]
Head of the radio station
Shrunken-Head-Buchenwald.gif
[TMWC, Vol. XXXII, p. 271] A shrunken head of a prisoner, discovered
at the Buchenwald camp. In order to terrorize the other prisoners,
the SS guards hanged two shrunken heads in the middle of the camp.
Teeth.gif
Treblinka-Mass-Grave.gif
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 12:47:07 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: RICHARD JENSEN <CAMPBELLD@APSU.BITNET> Subject: Annenberg Postdoc Fellowships
ANNENBERG RESEARCH INSTITUTE/CENTER FOR JUDAIC STUDIES
University of Pennsylvania
Post Doctoral Fellowships 1994/95
Dissertation Fellowships
Application Deadline November 1, 1993
The Center invites applications from scholars engaged in advanced research in Judaic and Near Eastern Studies, the latter including pre-Christian, Christian, and Islamic history and culture, from ancient to modern times. A few fellowships will be available for advanced graduate students writing their dissertations on relevant topics.
Any topic within these fields may be proposed. For academic year 1994-95, the main topic of investigation will be:
HISTORY -- REMEMBERED, RECOVERED, INVENTED:
HISTORICAL MEMORY AND THE CONSTRUCTION OF TRADITION
In the self-definition of human societies, historical memory, research, and invention are important standard elements. A variety of materials (creation myths, foundation legends, sacred history, stories of the lives of religious and national heroes and villains, and the like) preserved, recovered, and embellished, help to determine group identities and group solidarity. How have these processes, and the resultant visions of the past, influenced Jewish, Christian and Muslim societies in previous eras? What roles do they play today in an age of assertive nationalisms, politicized religions, and self-conscious ethnicities?
Preference will be given to projects relevant to this topic, although others may be considered.
Stipend amounts are based on a Fellow's academic standing and financial need, with a maximum of $35,000 for the academic year. A contribution may also be made towards travel expenses.
Awards will be announced January 15, 1994.
For application material and further information, write to:
Secretary, Fellowship Program
Annenberg Research Institute
Center for Judaic Studies
420 Walnut Street
Philadelphia, PA 19106
(telephone) 215-238-1290
(fax) 215-238-1540
(bitnet) ALLEN@ANNENRES
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 12:48:14 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: RICHARD JENSEN <CAMPBELLD@APSU.BITNET>
Subject: H-Net Guide to Holocaust & Judaica Libraries
H-Net OnLine Guide to HOLOCAUST/JUDAICA Research Centers from HOLOCAUS@uicvm & Library of Congress
2104 Georgetown Blvd. Ann Arbor, MI 48105 Tel: (313) 996-2880 AREAS OF INTEREST: Research and scholarship on Latin American Jewry, including history and contemporary life. HOLDINGS: Library of serial and monographic publications. LAJSA is currently compiling a computerized data base to select data. PUBLICATIONS: Semiannual newsletter (each issue includes a bibliography of current publications related to Latin American Jewry);Resources for Latin American Jewish Studies (1984); membership directory; conference proceedings. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory and reference services and information on research in progress; evaluates and analyzes data; conducts seminars and workshops; distributes publications; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits limited onsite use of collections. Services are available to anyone upon payment of membership fees.
Holocaust Project Emory University Atlanta, GA 30322 Tel: (404) 329-6428 AREAS OF INTEREST: The Project collects oral, video, and written testimony of witnesses to the German concentration camps of World War II, principally American soldiers liberating the camps, medical personnel, relief workers, and the press. HOLDINGS: 110 transcripts of oral interviews of American liberators of German concentration camps; about 300 photographs of over 20 concentration camps; library of about 200 volumes; subject file on the Jewish Holocaust covering about 50 related topics. PUBLICATIONS: Emory Studies on the Holocaust; Dachau; KZ: A Pictorial Report from Five Concentration Camps; In the Shadow of the Flames: Six Lectures on the Holocaust. A publications pricelist is available. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides information on research in progress; distributes publications; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite use of collections. Except for publications, services are free and all are available to anyone.
History Center Judah L. Magnes Memorial Museum 2911 Russell St. Berkeley, CA 94705 Tel: (415) 849-2710 AREAS OF INTEREST: History of Jewish individuals, businesses, institutions, and organizations in the Western United States. HOLDINGS: Manuscripts and printed sources documenting Western United States Jewish history; about 12,000 photographs; oral histories; periodicals; tapes; microfiche; microfilm. PUBLICATIONS: Guide to Archival and Oral History Collections; books, journal articles, bibliographies, directories. A publications list is available. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides reference, reproduction, and microform services; makes interlibrary loans of books only; sponsors seminars and workshops; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite use of collections. Publications, reproductions, and extensive reference services are subject to a fee; other services are free. All are available to anyone.
Hebrew Union College 3101 Clifton Ave. Cincinnati, OH 45220 Tel: (513) 221-1875 AREAS OF INTEREST: Jewish life and history in the Western Hemisphere. HOLDINGS: The Archives houses manuscript materials, predominately, but not exclusively, from North American sources, some of them dating back to the late 16th century. There are some 8 million pages of material, in addition to newspaper and periodical clippings, pamphlets, brochures, and photos. Languages represented include English, Hebrew, Yiddish, German, Spanish, French, Ladino, Portuguese, and Dutch. PUBLICATIONS: American Jewish Archives (semiannual historical journal); The Manuscript Catalog of the American Jewish Archives (1977, 5 vols., published by G.K. Hall & Co., Boston); occasional monographs and brochures. INFORMATION SERVICES: Most of the material may be studied in the Archives. Services include limited literature searches, limited answers to inquiries, referral to other sources of information, and authentication of documents. An hourly fee is charged for services requiring more than an hour of staff time. A copying service is also available, and translators can be recommended for foreign language materials.
University of Denver Denver, CO 80208 Tel: (303) 753-2068 The Center has received grants from the Jewish Culture Foundation of the University of Denver, the National Foundation for Jewish Culture, the Phillips Foundation, the Hebrew Culture Foundation, the United Methodist Church Board of Higher Education, the Beaumont Foundation, the Allied Jewish Federation of Denver, and from numerous private foundations and individuals. AREAS OF INTEREST: History of Judaism, the Jews, and Israel; Biblical studies; American judaism; Jewish life, institutions, and services in the Rocky Mountain region; Hebrew language and literature; the Holocaust, interfaith studies; Jewish social ethics. HOLDINGS: The Ira M. Beck Memorial Archives of Rocky Mountain Jewish History contains newspapers, manuscripts, private papers, pictorial and oral histories, memorabilia, and documents reflecting the history of organizations and businesses, and the lives of individuals who have contributed to the building of Jewish life in the area. The Solomon Shwayder Memorial Library in Hebraic Studies contains over 12,000 volumes. PUBLICATIONS: Rocky Mountain Jewish Historical Notes (quarterly); books, reprints, sound filmstrip. A publications list is available. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory, copying, and microform services; conducts courses, conferences, symposia, and weekend retreats; distributes publications and data compilations; maintains a speakers bureau; makes referrals to other sources of information; provides demographic research services to community agencies; permits onsite use of collections. Services may be subject to a fee and are available to anyone.
Los Angeles, CA 90046 Tel: (213) 650-1774 AREAS OF INTEREST: Holocaust studies; non-Jewish rescuers of Jewish refugees from German persecution. HOLDINGS: Documents and photographs relating to the above areas. PUBLICATIONS: Journal articles; bibliographies; reprints. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory and reference services; evaluates data; conducts seminars and workshops; distributes publications; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite use of collections. Services may be subject to fees and all are available to anyone.
Center Yeshiva University of Los Angeles 9760 West Pico Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90035 Tel: (213) 553-9036 or 553-4478 AREAS OF INTEREST: Jewish history, identity, religion, heritage, philosophy, life, and law; anti-Semitism; the Bible; the Talmud; holocaust studies. HOLDINGS: Collections of books, periodicals, artifacts, archives (including film and photo), oral histories, pamphlets, and media materials; access to the NEXIS computerized data base and the AP wire service. PUBLICATIONS: Response (quarterly magazine); Simon Wiesenthal Center annual; Simon Wiesenthal Monograph Series; Page One (syndicated radio magazine). INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries or refers inquirers to other sources of information; provides advisory, reference, literature-searching, and current-awareness services; provides reproduction services for fee; conducts seminars; lends materials (with some limitations; nonmembers may leave a refundable deposit); permits onsite use of collections. Most services are available to anyone.
Canadian Jewish Congress 1590 Avenue Docteur Penfield Montreal, Quebec, CANADA H3G 1C5 Tel: (514) 931-7531 AREAS OF INTEREST: All aspects and concerns of the Jewish community in Canada, including immigration, integration into Canadian society, Jewish identity, community organization, religious practice, Zionism, discrimination, oppressed Jewry in foreign countries, politics, business, literature, education, and youth. HOLDINGS: Manuscript collections, monographs, periodicals, journals, scrapbooks, pamphlets, sound tapes, microfilms, photographs, memorabilia. PUBLICATIONS: Canadian Jewish Archives (monograph series); Clouds in the Thirties, on Anti-Semitism in Canada, 1929-1939 (13-vol. series). A publications pricelist is available. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory, reference, and reproduction services; provides computer data base searches upon request; distributes publications; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite use of collections by appointment. Except for reproductions and publications, services are free and all are available to anyone.
American Jewish Committee 165 East 56th St. New York, NY 10022 Tel: (212) 751-4000 A nonprofit organization, AJC is the American pioneer human relations organization founded in 1906. It combats bigotry, protects the civil and religious rights of people in the United States and abroad, and advances the cause of improved human relations for all people everywhere. AREAS OF INTEREST: Contemporary American Jewish communal affairs; Jewry; family; Jewish identity; intergroup relations; civil rights and civil liberties; interreligious relation; Jewish life in the Diaspora. HOLDINGS: Archival collection of AJC's history; anti-Semitic materials, both American and foreign. PUBLICATIONS: Recent Additions to the Library (quarterly); journal articles (about 8 a year). AJC publishes Commentary (monthly journal), Present Tense (quarterly journal), American Jewish Yearbook, other books, journal articles, and reprints. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides reference, literature-searching, abstracting, indexing, and reproduction services; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite use of collections. Services are free, except for reproduction services, and available primarily for the staff, but others will be assisted.
10028 Tel: (212) 879-4500 The Congress is a nonprofit organization. AREAS OF INTEREST: All aspects of minority rights; church-state relations; religious freedom; Jewish rights around the world; Jews in Arab lands; Israel; Soviet Jewry; health care; the elderly; women's rights; constitutional freedoms; unemployment; cults; Jewish history and culture. HOLDINGS: Materials on the areas above. PUBLICATIONS: Congress Monthly; Judaism (quarterly journal); books, reports, critical reviews, research summaries, bibliographies, reprints. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory services; conducts seminars and workshops; evaluates data; distributes data compilations and publications; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite use of collection. Services are free, except for publications, and available to anyone.
11. NYC. Jewish Museum 1109 Fifth Ave. New York, NY 10028
Tel: (212) 860-1888 A nonprofit organization under the
auspices of The Jewish Theological Seminary of America, the
Museum is the main repository in the United States for arts
and artifacts representing Jewish culture and the largest
museum devoted to creating changing exhibitions relating to
Jewish culture. AREAS OF INTEREST: Jewish art life,
culture, and history. HOLDINGS: Collection of 15,000 works
in all media, including of archaeology, numismastics, fine
arts, and ethnography. Subjects of permanent exhibits
include the Holocaust; Biblical Archaeology from Iron Age
and Second Temple periods; coins dating from the 6th century
B.C.E. to modern times; medals of Jewish personalities and
events of historical interest; extensive collection of
textiles used in the home and synagogue; ceremonial objects,
including those from the destroyed Danzig Jewish community;
paintings, graphics, sculpture, and photographs illustrative
of the Jewish experience; and ceremonial objects from around
the world (shown in changing exhibits). PUBLICATIONS:
Quarterly newsletter and calendar of events; catalogs of
Museum exhibits; limited edition graphics; posters;
educational exhibition brochures and guides. INFORMATION
SERVICES: Answers inquiries; conducts tours of special
exhibitions and permanent installations, lectures, film
showings, and concerts; lends materials; makes referrals to
other sources of information. Special classes and programs
for children are conducted by the Education Department. The
Museum Shop sells books, catalogs, posters, some adaptations
of objects in the permanent collections, and other items of
Jewish interest.
12. NYC. Jewish Theological Seminary of America Library Jewish
Theological Seminary of America 3080 Broadway New York, NY
10027 Tel: (212) 678-8080
AREAS OF INTEREST: Religious education; Judaica; Rabbinics;
history and sociology of the Jews; Israel; Hebrew language
and literature; Bible; liturgy. HOLDINGS: 270,000 volumes;
715 periodical subscriptions; 10,000 manuscripts; 15,000
rare books; archives; prints; access to OCLC. PUBLICATIONS:
New Acquisition List (monthly); Between the Lines
(quarterly). INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries;
provides advisory, reference, and reproduction services;
makes direct and interlibrary loans; permits onsite use of
collection; searches DIALOG. All services, except
reproduction services, are free. Direct loan services are
limited to faculty, students, alumni, and members; other
services are available to anyone.
13. NYC. Leo Baeck Institute, Inc. (LBI) 129 East 73d St. New
York, NY 10021 Tel: (212)
744-6400 Partially sponsored by the National Endowment for
the Humanities, the National Endowment for the Arts, and
various foundations, LBI is a research, study, and lecture
center, library, archives, and museum concerned with the
life and history of centuries-old German Jewry, including
the life and history of other German-speaking Jewries, from
the 18th century until its end in Nazi days. LBI works
closely with the Leo Baeck Institutes in Jerusalem and
London. AREAS OF INTEREST: Literature, art, and history of
German-speaking Jews. HOLDINGS: 60,000-volume library; art
collection of more than 100 oil paintings and 4,000 drawings
and prints; archive of 2,500 collections, including literary
estates, community documents, autographs, and genealogical
material. The Catalog of the Archive is computerized.
PUBLICATIONS: LBI News and Leo Baeck Institute Library and
Archives News (both semiannual); Leo Baeck Institute
Yearbook (29 vols. to date); Leo Baeck Institute Bulletin
(68 issues); books, bibliographies. A publications list is
available. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries;
provides reference, literature-searching, and duplication
services; conducts lectures, faculty seminars, and artwork
and archival rarity exhibits; makes interlibrary loans;
distributes publications; makes referrals to other sources
of information; permits onsite use of collections. Services
are free, except for duplication services, and available to
anyone.
14. NYC. National Foundation for Jewish Culture (NFJC) 330 7th
Ave., 21st Floor New York, NY 10001
Tel: (212) 629-0500 NFJC is a nonprofit organization.
AREAS OF INTEREST: Doctoral dissertations and other studies
related to Jewish life, literature, history, ethnic theater,
ethnomusicology, libraries, archives, etc. INFORMATION
SERVICES: Provides consultation, guidance, and support to
Jewish communities, organizations, educational and other
institutions, and individuals for activities in the field of
Jewish culture; awards fellowships and other grants to
students preparing for careers in Jewish scholarship and to
established scholars; makes awards for creative efforts in
Jewish cultural arts and for Jewish programming in small and
intermediate communities; encourages teaching of Jewish
studies in colleges and universities; serves as a
clearinghouse of information on American Jewish culture.
15. NYC. World Federation of Bergen Belsen Associations P.O. Box
232, Lenox Hill Station New York, NY 10021
Tel: (212) 752-0600 AREAS OF INTEREST: Memorials and
commemorations for the victims of the Jewish Holocaust of
World War II; preservation of sites at the former Belsen
death camps. PUBLICATIONS: Bergen-Belsen Memorial Press;
journal articles. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries;
provides advisory, reference, literature-searching, and
current-awareness services; evaluates and analyzes data;
conducts seminars and workshops; distributes publications;
makes referrals to other sources of information. Services
are available free to anyone.
16. NYC. YIVO Institute for Jewish Research 1048 Fifth Ave. New
York, NY 10028 Tel: (212)
535-6700 An institution devoted to the study of Jewish
life, past and present, the YIVO Institute's activities
include maintaining a library and archives; research
projects; the training of younger scholars; exhibits;
publications; and public programs and conferences. AREAS OF
INTEREST: Jewish life and culture in Eastern Europe; the
Holocaust; the period of Jewish mass settlement in the
United States and other countries; Yiddish language,
literature, theatre, and folklore. HOLDINGS: Over 22
million archival items, including letters, documents,
photographs, manuscripts, and organizational records; over
300,000 volumes, including rare books and periodicals; a
photographic collection of about 100,000 items; immigration
records comprising over 3 million pages; a Yiddish theater
collection that includes manuscripts, correspondence,
programs, photographs, sheet music, and other memorabilia;
slide bank; art collection; PUBLICATIONS: YIVO Annual of
Jewish Social Science; YIVO-bleter; Yidishe shprakh ; News
of the YIVO; books, monographs. A list of currently
available publications is available. INFORMATION SERVICES:
Provides consulting, genealogical research, and reference
services; answers inquiries or makes referrals to other
institutions. Limited bibliographic service is provided
free, but there is a charge for extensive research.
Photocopies, microfilm, and reproductions of photographs may
be purchased.
17. NYC City University of New York Graduate School and
University Center Jack P. Eisner Institute for Holocaust
Studies Graduate School and University Center, CUNY 33 West
42d St., Room 1450 New York, NY 10036
Tel: (212) 790-4517 The Institute is sponsored by the
Holocaust Survivors Memorial Foundation. AREAS OF INTEREST:
Teaching, research, and scholarship programs in Holocaust
studies; inservice education for teachers in Holocaust
studies. HOLDINGS: Videotapes of Holocaust survivors;
videotapes of seminars and lectures on Holocaust studies;
unique archival collection of documents pertaining to the
Holocaust in Hungary. PUBLICATIONS: Perspectives on the
Holocaust; Contemporary Views on the Holocaust; Genocide and
Retribution: The Holocaust in Hungarian-ruled Northern
Transylvania; The Hungarian Jewish Catastrophe: A Selected
and Annotated Bibliography; Jewish Leadership During the
Nazi Era: Patterns of Behavior in the Free World; The
Holocaust in Hungary--40 Years Later (1985); The Origins of
the Holocaust Christian Anti-Semitism (1986); The Halutz
Resistance in Hungary, l942-l944 (1986 Depositions); The
Tragedy of Hungarian Jewry: Essays, Documents (1986); The
Treatment of the Holocaust in Textbooks (1987). INFORMATION
SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory and
consulting services; conducts seminars and lectures; makes
referrals to other sources of information. Formal courses
are restricted to junior high and high school teachers and
service personnel. Public lectures and information services
are free to all.
18. Washington. African and Middle Eastern Division Hebraic
Section African and Middle Eastern Division Libary of
Congress 10 First St. SE. Washington, DC 20540
Tel: (202) 707-5422 Hours: 8:30 a.m.-5 p.m. Mon.-Fri.;
closed Sat., Sun., and holidays. AREAS OF INTEREST: Israel;
Jews and Judaism in all parts of the world; Jewish history;
the Bible; Hebrew, Yiddish, and Amharic literature; ancient
Middle East, its Semitic cultures and languages; Zionism;
anti-Semitism; Holocaust. HOLDINGS: Collections on areas of
interest primarily in Hebrew, with additional holdings in
Yiddish, Aramaic, Syriac, Amharic, and cognate languages;
reference and bibliographic tools, including national union
catalogs of Hebraica and Yiddica, recording the holdings of
all major American collections. INFORMATION SERVICES:
Answers inquiries; makes referrals; provides reference and
bibliographic services. Special reference materials are
available for onsite use only.
[this list may be freely copied & circulated; please cite HOLOCAUS@uicvm]
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 15:07:23 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: HOPKINSD@EWC.BITNET Subject: Teaching the Holocaust
I thought folks might be interested in knowing that in the May-June issue of the Horn Book (which reviews children's literature) there is a personal essay of one teacher's experience of working with a high school class to teach about the Holocaust. If there are any teachers on the list you might find it interesting.
D. Hopkinson
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 09:05:29 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Seth L. Ness" <ness@aecom.yu.edu> Subject: dominican republic
In-Reply-To: <199306022010.AA25323@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu>
hi,
does anybody have information about, or can give me reference to look for
about jewish refugees in the dominican republic during the holocaust. my
grandfather was one of them and i'd like to know more. thanks.
Seth L. Ness Ness Gadol Hayah Sham ness@aecom.yu.edu
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 11:54:11 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Daniel Burstein <dannyb@Panix.Com> Subject: anyone hear of the "gottsheer" group?
In-Reply-To: <199306031408.AA22895@sun.Panix.Com>
A reporter friend of mine noted that there one of the groups in the (former) Yugoslavia is a faction in the civil war there, and has been making references to how they were involved in the fighting during World War two.
The group's name is the "gottscheer," and apparently they were on the receiveing end of some nastiness by the Slovinians during the war.
We can't find any info on them, and were wondering if the name rings any sort of bells to the people on this List.
thanks
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 11:55:10 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "David Hirsch, Bibliographers Group" <ECZ5HIR@UCLAMVS.BITNET> Subject: (COPY) ORION BIBLIOGRAPHY
In response to Seth Ness' question, there are at least a couple of books about the Jewish community in the Dominican Republic, which at its peak probably numbered a little over a thousand. The two references below refer to a Jewish agricultural colony in Sosua, Dominican Republic. A small community still exists there, as well as in Santo Domingo.
Both of these items are held at UCLA and can be obtained via Interlibrary Loan.
Hyman Kisch wrote a thesis entitled: The Jewish Settlement from Central Europe in the Dominican Republic. Jewish Theological Seminary, 1970.
You may be able to obtain this from another source. Good luck.
David Hirsch
ORION Number: 3492210MC
Author: Eichen, Josef David.
Title: Sosua, una colonia hebrea en la Republica Dominicana / Josef
David Eichen.
Published: Santiago, Republica Dominicana : Universidad Catolica Madre y
Maestra, Departamento de Publicaciones, 1980.
Description: 126 p. : ill., ports. ; 22 cm.
Series: Coleccion Estudios (Universidad Catolica Madre y Maestra) ;
54.
Subject(s): Jews--Dominican Republic--Sosua--History.
Jews--Colonization--Dominican Republic--Sosua.
Refugees, Jewish--Dominican Republic--Sosua.
Sosua (Dominican Republic)--Ethnic relations.
LIBRARY: URL Call number: F 1941 J4 E37 1980
Status: Checked Out -- Due 08/27/93.
ORION Number: 4453894MC
Author: Kaetsch, Siegfried.
Title: Sosua, verheissenes Land. Eine Dokumentation zu
Adaptionsproblemen deutsch-juedischer Siedler in der
Dominikanischen Republik. [Von] Siegfried Kaetsch [und] Elke-
Maria Kaetsch. Unter Mitarb. von Henry P[hilip] David.
(Red. durch das Sekretariat des Forschungsschwerpunkts
Lateinamerika der Univ. Bielefeld.)
Published: Dortmund (Univ. Muenster, Sozialforschungsstelle,
Kontaktprogramm zur Sozialwissenschaftlichen Forschung in
Latein-Amerika) 1970.
Description: 297 p. 21 cm.
Series: Arbeitsunterlage zur Lateinamerikaforschung, 38/39
Subject(s): Jews in Sosua, Dominican Republic.
Land settlement--Sosua, Dominican Republic.
Refugees, Jewish.
Other Names: Kaetsch, Elke Maria, joint author.
David, Henry Philip, 1923- joint author.
Notes: Bibliography: p. 279-280.
LIBRARY: URL Call number: F 1401 A666 no.38-39
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 22:44:27 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: "Kenneth.Waltzer" <21409MGR@msu.edu>
Subject: Jewish Underground in Poland
I am writing on American Jewish Labor's Response to the Holocaust. A piece of this concerns aid sent through the Polish Gov't in Exile to Poland to the Jewish Underground to dispense to Jews in hiding, 1943-44. Can anyone direct me to survivors or to memoirs concerning Jews in hiding who were served by such aid distributed by couriers of the Jewish Underground. I have interviewed Vladka Meed and read her memoir. Meed was a courier On The Other Side of the Wall. Can anyone suggest additional sources? leads?
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 22:53:17 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Sam Silverman <SILVERSA@BCVMS.BITNET> Subject: Dominican Republic
On refugee settlement in the Dominican Republic see also "Refugee Settlement in the Dominican Republic: A survey conducted under the auspices of the Brookings Institution" Washington, DC: The Brookings Institution, 1942. It contains a chapter on the Sosua colony.
Sam Silverman
SILVERSA@BCVMS
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 23:00:40 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: LC0380@ALBNYVMS.BITNET Subject: Holocaust Denial
The following is a reprint of an article that appeared in the June 3, 1993 issue of "The Jewish World," a weekly newspaper from Albany, New York. The article reviews the recently-published book from the American Jewish Committee, "Holocaust Denial" written by Kenneth Stern. Many interesting ideas are covered, and it seemed well worthwhile to post a review on this very disturbing topic. The article (which has no author attribution) is reprinted without permission.
I'd be very interested in follow-up comments.
This has been posted to:
Progressive Jewish Mailing List [PJML@utxvm]
Holocaust List [HOLOCAUS@uicvm]
My apologies to people on both lists who will receive this file twice.
Laura Cohen
NEW YORK CITY - Denial of the Holocaust is the newest anti-Semitic lie. As witnesses to the Nazi genocide of the Jews die, and new generations are born, this canard has the potential to become a mainstay of 21st century anti-Semitism. A significant number of people are already open to the claim that the Holocaust never occurred, that Jews simply made it up.
Holocaust denial is the focus of a recently released 193-page American Jewish Committee book entitled "Holocaust Denial," written by Kenneth Stern, AJC program specialist on anti-Semitism and extremism. In the book's four chapters, Stern not only exposes the promoters and supporters of Holocaust denial, but also looks at political and historical factors that help define long-term plans to combat it.
Stern stresses that Holocaust denial, promoted by anti-Semitic and neo-Nazi groups such as the Institute for Historical Review and others, is a growth industry that must not be dismissed as the rantings of lunatics. Rather, it must be seen as the newest addendum to the lies that have historically fueled anti-Semitism, in line with the claims that the Jews poisoned wells, killed Christ, or are part of a worldwide conspiracy.
Holocaust denial, Stern adds, is doubly troubling because it is presented not as crass Jew-hatred, but as reasonable sounding pseudoscience and pseudo-history frequently written by people with doctorates. Deniers, or "revisionists," as they cynically refer to themselves, distort the minutiae and details of the Holocaust, such as the workings of the gas chambers or the number of Jews killed or the Nuremberg trials or Hitler's intentions, to claim that there was no policy to exterminate Jews during World War II. A surprising number of people around the world are open to these bizarre, but made-to-appear-rational claims.
Stern writes that deniers--whose claims have appeared in the classroom, on college campuses, in politics, in libraries, on computers, and in the media--must not be debated, as debate gives them the undeserved legitimacy they crave. Rather, he argues, their neo-Nazi agendas and historical distortions must be exposed. Historians and educational leadership, such as university presidents, have key roles to play in countering the deniers' handiwork, which frequently includes the offering of Holocaust-denying advertisements to student newspapers.
Most people, however, will not learn of Holocaust denial in school or through denying literature; they will learn of it through the media. For radio and television--media that need spicy topics to drive up ratings-- Holocaust denial certainly generates heat. Deniers are prepared with a reservoir of facts, half-facts, quarter-facts, and outright lies to counter any talk-show host--for what talk show personality can spend the hours of research necessary to expose the deniers' reasonable sounding lies? Another problem is that the people that can appear on these programs to expose the deniers are left in a quandary: if they do not appear with them, the lies are unchallenged; and worse, if they do confront them, the deniers' credibility is enhanced and there becomes a "debate" between "opposing theories," which is exactly what they seek.
In a political arena, Stern continues, two presidential candidates in 1992 espoused Holocaust denial, one (David Duke) fully, one (Patrick Buchanan) partly. "The troubling thing is that when Holocaust denial has appeared in national politics, it has been seen as quirkiness, not hatred...While no one from a major party has campaigned on a platform of Holocaust denial, the votes of millions of Americans say that this form of anti-Semitism is no big deal. If a candidate is attractive for other reasons, denial of a recent major historical tragedy involving Jews will be overlooked rather than seen as an irreparable character defect."
In the book's second chapter, Stern looks at the patterns and purveyors of Holocaust denial around the world, including in Germany, Britain, France, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Romania, Ukraine, former Yugoslavia, Poland, Slovakia, Russia, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Venezuela, Mexico, Peru, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, and Arab nations.
Stern stresses the growth of Holocaust denial in Europe, and especially Eastern Europe, in the aftermath of the fall of Communism. In many areas the Nazi puppet states were the last non-Communist governments, and are being rehabilitated. To make these states symbols of a reclaimed nationalism requires a rewriting of Nazism. And, Stern asserts, among the far-right anti-Semitic groups in Europe today, Holocaust denial is the "ideological glue."
Hatred for Israel appears prominently in Holocaust denial literature, writes Stern. "Deniers integrally link Holocaust denial with anti-Israel propaganda, for if the Holocaust is a 'hoax,' as they suggest, then one of the justifications for a Jewish State is undermined. Holocaust denial not only attacks Jewish history, its inherent anti-Zionism also targets the Jewish present and the Jewish future."
In the book's third chapter, Stern debunks the Holocaust deniers' claims by methodically exposing their scientific, factual, and historical distortions.
In the final chapter, Stern analyzes the multi-faceted ways in which people and institutions can fight Holocaust denial in the long run, including through Holocaust education, speakers, memorials, museums, movies, articles, and books. "All are essential," he says, "but not sufficient."
"We can, and we must, combat Holocaust denial as a falsehood, as hatred, and as a form of politics," Stern stresses. "If we want to be effective, rather than just feel righteous or 'correct,' we have to have a sophisticated strategy. Jews have to work with other groups, building common lessons from the human tragedy of genocide. We have to exert political power, demanding that our institutions develop effective means to combat intergroup hatred. We must demand that government create incentives for local institutions to fight bigotry on a day-in, day-out, unremarkable basis. Memory, or logic, or knowledge, or goodwill, by themselves, cannot conquer societal hate. Holocaust deniers count on that.
"Holocaust denial is a problem with many dimensions," Stern concludes. "It is part anti-Semitism, part anti-history, part anti-authority, part anti-democracy. Like all forms of hatred, and all ideologies that promote or apologize for fascism, it must not be dismissed as either something 'silly' or as something to be combatted with platitudes or incantations of 'the truth.' It must be fought as hatred, as ignorance, and as ideology."
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1993 09:39:25 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Judith Turner <judith@page1.com> Subject: Where it starts
I was in Los Angeles last week, and caught an early-morning ad on one of those gospel shows about a video-toon Life of Jesus.
One thing caught my attention: They talked about and dramatized how Herod ordered all the Jewish boy babies killed, and how it was a miracle that Jesus was saved.
And they claimed to be Biblically accurate.
I'm no scholar of the New Testament, but I wonder if this isn't a) untrue, and b) a good grounding for future anti-Semites.
Comments anyone?
--Judith Turner
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1993 13:22:53 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives <simonwie@CLASS.ORG> Subject: Re: H-Net Guide to Holocaust & Judaica Libraries
Here is a revised listing for the Simon Wiesenthal Center
Paul H. Hamburg
Reference Librarian
7. LA. Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives and Beit Hashoah ) Museum of Tolerance. 9760 West Pico Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90035 Tel: (310) 553-9036; Fax: (310) 553)8659; E)mail: simonwie@class.org.
AREAS OF INTEREST: Holocaust studies; anti-Semitism; Jewish history, identity, religion, heritage, philosophy, life, and law; racism and extremism; ethnic studies.
HOLDINGS: Books, periodicals, artifacts, and momorabilia; photo, film and video collections; oral histories; victim and survivor documentation; media materials; access to the NEXIS computerized data base and the AP wire service.
PUBLICATIONS: Response (quarterly magazine); Simon Wiesenthal Center annual (vols. 1)7); Simon Wiesenthal Monograph Series; Dignity and Defiance: The Confrontation of Life and Death in the Warsaw Ghetto; Publication list available on request; Page One (syndicated radio magazine).
INFORMATION SERVICES: The Library/Archives answers inquiries or refers patrons to other sources of information; provides reference, literature-searching, and other bibliographical services; provides reproduction services for fee; conducts seminars; lends materials (with some limitations; nonmembers may leave a refundable deposit); permits onsite use of collections.
.
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1993 14:23:07 -0500 Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jim Mott <jimmott@spss.com> Subject: Announcing HNSERVER (fwd)
From: Lynn Nelson <LHNELSON%UKANVM.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> ANNOUNCING HNSERVER
HNServer is an information server located at telnet history.cc.ukans.edu login: history. Thse who prefer gopher access may reach HNServer through gopher TISL.ukans.edu HNServer is maintained by Academic Computer Services and the History Department of the University of Kansas and, under the auspices of the History Network, has been given the task of serving as the central information server for the international community of historians.
An information server is an electronic installation that provides lists, called "menus", of other electronic sites, allows users to select those in which they are interested, and switches users automatically to the site selected. Such sites include library catalogues; data bases; full texts of books, articles, reviews, reference works, computer software, and other materials; graphic image collections; professional news; national and local weather reports; telephone and electronic address books; university news services; electronic journals; and much more. Users may retrieve electronically whatever material they wish from thse sites, free > of charge.
HNServer currently has connections to over two hundred library catalogues worldwide; data bases in Kansas, Ohio, Minnesota, Mississipi, Missouri, Illinois, Washington DC, Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, and the United Nations, as well as connections to other information servers that provide the user with still more additional connections. Several Usenet usergroups of interest to historians are presently on-line and more are being added. Electronic journals include CLIONET (Australia), Colegios, EconHist, REACH, and the Bryn Mawr Classical Review, and the holding of GHETA, the Netherlands respository of historical journals. Johns Hopkins Press pre-publication articles are now available, as well as the US National Archives catalogue of available files and the Library of Congress Information Files.
Cooperative plans are underway to establish connections between HNServer and the Institute of Historical Research of the University of London, Carlisle Barracks' Center for Military History, and planned national storage sites for historical data in Germany and Canada.
The operators of HNServer are continuing to search for other useful sites, and historians in various parts of the world have been stimulated by the existence of a central server to begin to establish new sites in which to collect historical materials.
Lynn Nelson
LHNELSON@UKANVM
lhnelson@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 08:44:23 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: "D. Andrew Kille" <revdak@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Where it starts
In-Reply-To: <9306041439.AA01830@mail.netcom.com>; from "Judith Turner" at Jun
4, 93 9:39 am
>
> I was in Los Angeles last week, and caught an
> early-morning ad on one of those gospel shows
> about a video-toon Life of Jesus.
>
> One thing caught my attention: They talked about
> and dramatized how Herod ordered all the Jewish
> boy babies killed, and how it was a miracle that
> Jesus was saved.
>
> And they claimed to be Biblically accurate.
>
> I'm no scholar of the New Testament, but I wonder
> if this isn't a) untrue, and b) a good grounding
> for future anti-Semites.
>
> Comments anyone?
>
> --Judith Turner
>
A couple quick notes. First, the story of Herod's slaughter of the
innocents _is_ in the book of Matthew (2:16-17). Secondly, in the book
it is clear that it is Herod, and not the Jewish people who are the
threat (after Herod's death, Jesus' family is safe to return from
hiding out in Egypt). Thirdly, historians have found no evidence for any
such slaughter (of all male children under the age of 2) in Bethlehem or
anywhere else during Herod's reign. Fourthly, Herod was no prize- even if
he didn't order the murder of a village's children, he _did_ manage to
kill off most of his own family and anyone else who got in his way. The
story, if not historically accurate, is within the bounds of Herod's known
methods. Fifthly, there are other more troubling passages in the NT for
grounding future anti-Semites. One would have already to be a sloppy and
biased reader to extend Herod's guilt (historical or not) to the people who
were the objects of his terror.
--
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 08:45:28 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Cecelia A Clancy <cacst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: dominican republic
In-Reply-To: <Added.sg3ULK_2ATvvRFVU5V@pitt.edu>
On Thu, 3 Jun 1993, Seth L. Ness wrote:
> hi,
> does anybody have information about, or can give me reference to look for
> about jewish refugees in the dominican republic during the holocaust. my
> grandfather was one of them and i'd like to know more. thanks.
>
>
>
> Seth L. Ness Ness Gadol Hayah Sham
> ness@aecom.yu.edu
The first thing that pops into my mind is David Wyman's _Paper Walls_, which covers the 1930's, and which is * NOT * duplicated in his later work, _Abanndonment of the Jews_, which covers the 1940's. _Paper Walls_, even though I think it is more important and more groundbreaking than _Abandonment_, does not get as much "promoted". (To what extent is this explained by some people out there in the general public finding the 1940's "more exciting" and even "more titillating" than the 1930's in this regard - thereby causing the book trade to push it more in caterance to the public whim, however "unadmitable" that whim might be????) _Paper Walls_, unfortunately, has been so "ignored", that it is now out of print.
But I DO think I remember seeing material about the Domenican Republic in _Paper Walls_. I will check to make sure and will post later of what exactly is in there.
On Thu, 3 Jun 1993, David Hirsch, Bibliographers Group wrote:
> In response to Seth Ness' question, there are at least a couple of books about > the Jewish community in the Dominican Republic, which at its peak probably > numbered a little over a thousand. The two references below refer to a Jewish > agricultural colony in Sosua, Dominican Republic. A small community still > exists there, as well as in Santo Domingo. > Both of these items are held at UCLA and can be obtained via Interlibrary > Loan.
Pero una de las referencias esta escrito en espan^ol und die andere ist
auf Deutsch geschrieben! [But one of the references is in Spanish and the other is in German!] Can Seth read one or both of these
languages?
I can help you on either language, Seth, if you would like. I think the material in those books would be worth enough to you for you to not let language barriers stand in your way.
> Hyman Kisch wrote a thesis entitled: The Jewish Settlement from Central > Europe in the Dominican Republic. Jewish Theological Seminary, 1970. > You may be able to obtain this from another source. Good luck.
I can find out the sources from which Seth can obtain this. At very least, he could most likely purchace a microfilm of it from an establishment in Ann Arbor, Michigan which specializes in the microfilming and sale of theses. More later.
I hope someone on this discussion group can help me. My father's family came from Kulczyce Szlacheckie, Galicia Poland (now Kulchitsy, Ukraine). It was (is) a small shtetl just east of Sambor. The last time my father heard from his family was in 1939. The family surnames were LEITER and LEDER.
I have been searching for reference material which would tell me what happened to the shtetl during the German/Russian/German occupation of WW II without any luck. Can anyone suggest any reference material that is available. Any help would be appreciated...... Bea Cohen
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:03:04 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Cecelia A Clancy <cacst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Sousa Settlement in the Dominican Republic
In-Reply-To: <Added.kg3WpxK2ATvvNlXU5e@pitt.edu>
Dear Seth,
> David Hirsch wrote:
>
> Hyman Kisch wrote a thesis entitled: The Jewish Settlement from Central
> Europe in the Dominican Republic. Jewish Theological Seminary, 1970.
>
> You may be able to obtain this from another source. Good luck.
I could not find this in _Dissertation Abstracts_. Apparantly it is a Master's Theses (and therefore the esdtablishment in Ann Arbor probably does NOT have it).
But try the Jewish Theological Seminary directly. The library (or the Department under which Kisch did his work) probably has a copy. There was a fire at the JTS library in 1966, so thank goodness this thesis was done AFTER that!
Louis S. Brush Memorial Library
Jewish Thoelogical Seminary
3080 Broadway
New York, NY 10027
A general phone number for the JTS is (212) 749-8000
Good luck again,
As a practicing Christian, I would like to comment on your fear that Herod's edict is a breeding ground for anti- semitism. Yes the New Testament does relate the story of Herod and Jesus' escape from his death call. I have never been taught or in any way, shape or form been influenced in my church or any other TRUE christian setting to be anti-semitic. In fact as I study the Old Testament and the life of Jesus I can relate to the Jewish nation because of their historical significance as related to our Messiah. While Christ wasn't a legalistic Jew, He was very much a Jew and loved His people. Any Christian who teaches anti-semitism, using the Bible as a tool is NOT A CHRISTIAN. I hope the love of Christ is what we can express to all of our brothers and sisters on this planet. After all Jesus died for ALL men and women.
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:05:53 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Dov Winer <VINER@BGUVM.BITNET> Subject: Re: Jewish Underground in Poland
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 3 Jun 1993 22:44:27 CDT from <21409MGR@msu.edu>
Shalom,
Sorry but I have no information to give you. If you are working in this
area would you possibly recommend a good history of the Bund ? In the
last Yom HaShoah here in Israel an argument was made that there is no
such book (only the victorious sections of the Jewish movements have a
good historiography - that was the argument).
Best regards,
Dov
Dov Winer
Ben Gurion University
Internet : viner at bguvm.bgu.ac.il
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:29:15 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Michel Eytan, LILoL" <eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Subject: Re: Where it starts
At 9:39 4/06/93 -0500, Judith Turner wrote:
> I was in Los Angeles last week, and caught an
> early-morning ad on one of those gospel shows
> about a video-toon Life of Jesus.
>
> One thing caught my attention: They talked about
> and dramatized how Herod ordered all the Jewish
> boy babies killed, and how it was a miracle that
> Jesus was saved.
>
> And they claimed to be Biblically accurate.
>
> I'm no scholar of the New Testament, but I wonder
> if this isn't a) untrue, and b) a good grounding
> for future anti-Semites.
>
> Comments anyone?
>
> --Judith Turner
Judith,
anti-semites don't need no good grounding, moreover the Romans were 1st class anti-semites before even Jesus was born -- which is not meant to disculpate the Church.
Dunno if this is the right place, but ever since as an 8-year old child I experienced the Shoa I keep wondering Why???
~=michel
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:30:38 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was HOLOCAUS@UICVM
From: "D. Andrew Kille" <revdak@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Where it starts
In-Reply-To: <9306041439.AA01830@mail.netcom.com>; from "Judith Turner" at Jun
4, 93 9:39 am
> I was in Los Angeles last week, and caught an
> early-morning ad on one of those gospel shows
> about a video-toon Life of Jesus.
>
> One thing caught my attention: They talked about
> and dramatized how Herod ordered all the Jewish
> boy babies killed, and how it was a miracle that
> Jesus was saved.
>
> And they claimed to be Biblically accurate.
>
> I'm no scholar of the New Testament, but I wonder
> if this isn't a) untrue, and b) a good grounding
> for future anti-Semites.
>
> Comments anyone?
>
> --Judith Turner
>
A couple quick notes. First, the story of Herod's slaughter of the
innocents _is_ in the book of Matthew (2:16-17). Secondly, in the book
it is clear that it is Herod, and not the Jewish people who are the
threat (after Herod's death, Jesus' family is safe to return from
hiding out in Egypt). Thirdly, historians have found no evidence for any
such slaughter (of all male children under the age of 2) in Bethlehem or
anywhere else during Herod's reign. Fourthly, Herod was no prize- even if
he didn't order the murder of a village's children, he _did_ manage to
kill off most of his own family and anyone else who got in his way. The
story, if not historically accurate, is within the bounds of Herod's known
methods. Fifthly, there are other more troubling passages in the NT for
grounding future anti-Semites. One would have already to be a sloppy and
biased reader to extend Herod's guilt (historical or not) to the people who
were the objects of his terror.
--
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 12:50:27 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: HANFTS@conrad.appstate.edu Subject: Re: Jewish Underground in Poland
Dov:
My work in ewish history is very parochial and focused on ews in the American
Southeast. I have taught several undergraduate courses on the Holocaust, the
that provided the basis for my earlier remarks, but the topic is ust one
that interests me as a Jew and i have no special expertese on it. I will
reviees the various bibliographies, journals and periodicals I used
to prepared for the course. Shoud I find any reference to a History or
analysis of the Bund, I'll e-mail it to you. The only thing that comes
to mind in a reference in Steiner's book TRIBLENKA, a "docu-fiction"
which list a few hundred books, are a few personal accounts but nothing
systematic. As I said, if I find anything I'll send it to you.
Warmest regards,
Sheldon Hanft (Hanfts@Appstate.edu)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 12:51:29 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET Subject: Re: Shtetl help needed
Date sent: 7-JUN-1993
To Bea Cohen:
I would reply privately but I can't figure out your address from your posting.
The American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust survivors has a National Registry database of survivors in North America. It can be searched by last name, town before the war, place during the war. If you write to them, asking if there are survivors from the town you are interested in, and enclosing a letter to those individuals explaining your interest, they will forward your letters, within reason. You can write to:
American Gathering
122 West 30th St. Room 205
New York, NY 10001
The National Registry was recently donated to the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington DC, so if you are there, you can also look at it yourself. Addresses however are not public information.
Lucia
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 12:52:52 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jeffrey A Shandler <jas42@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Shtetl help needed
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:01:38 CDT
Contact the YIVO Institute, 1048 Fifth Avenue, NY NY 10028. (212) 535-6700. Ask for Zachary Baker, Head Librarian, or someone in the archives.
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 12:57:16 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Seth L. Ness" <ness@aecom.yu.edu> Subject: dominican republic
In-Reply-To: <199306072021.AA03902@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu>
i think i can easily get the thesis from JTS since i'm pretty close to it and my sister goes to columbia now, and i'm an alumnus. i think i'll check out all the english references before i try the spanish and german. thanks.
Seth L. Ness Ness Gadol Hayah Sham ness@aecom.yu.edu
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:46:25 CDT Reply-To: silversa@bcvms.bc.edu Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Sam Silverman <SILVERSA@bcvms.bc.edu> Subject: Re: Shtetl help needed
You might try looking at the Yizkor book for Sambor. The bibliography in "From a ruined garden", Jack Kugelmass and Jonathan Boyarin, Schocken Books, 1983, does not list a Yizkor book for your father's town, but does list one for Sambor. It has sections in Hebrew, Yiddish and English, and was published in 1980. You might be able to get an address for some of the committee who published it,or perhaps for the Landsmanschaft, and they might have more information on your father's town. Yizkor books are available in several libraries. I use Brandeis, which claims to have about 80% of those available. A more up to date listing of Yizkor books can be found in "Genealogical resources in the New York metropolitan area", edited by Estelle Guzik, published by the Jewish Genealogical Society, P.O. Box 6398, New York, NY 10128, 1989.
Sam Silverman
SILVERSA@BCVMS.BITNET
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:49:18 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Louis de Groot <lou@kg6kf.ampr.org> Subject: H-Net Guide to Holocaust & Judiaca Libraries Subject: Re: H-Net Guide to Holocaust & Judaica Libraries
To: Multiple recipients of list HOLOCAUS
<HOLOCAUS%UICVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Here is a listing for the Holocaust Center of Northern California
Mrs. Barbara Harris Goodman, Executive Director
Mr. Barney Cohen, Archivist
Dr. Jacob Boas, Associate Director
Ms. Simone Schweber, Secondary Education Coordinator
The Holocaust Center of Northern California
mailing address: 639 14th Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94118
located at: 601 14th Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94118
Tel: (415) 751-6040; Fax: (415) 751-6735
Telephone Secondary Education Coordinator (415) 751-6041
E-mail:holo@kg6kf.ampr.org
Hours of Operation: S, M, W, 10 AM - 4 PM Pacific Time
Tu, Th, 12 PM - 8 PM Pacific Time
PURPOSE: The Holocaust Center of Northern California (HCNC) is dedicated to the
preservation of a past that must not be forgotten. The HCNC' s fundamental position is
that the facts must be known and must be remembered. The HCN C focuses on research
and education, in fulfillment of the testament left by the m artyrs of the Holocaust to its
survivors - to remember, to record, to understand, to explai n, and to enlighten future
generations.
AREAS OF INTEREST: Holocaust studies; anti-Semitism; Racism and extremism;
ethnic studies; Holocaust education; Teacher training for te aching the Holocaust,
High School Assembly programs.
HOLDINGS: Books, periodicals, artifacts; photo, film and vid eo collections; oral
histories audio as well as video; victim and survivor docume ntation; media
materials.
PUBLICATIONS: Yiskor books of the East European communities of Kobrin and
Kosow-Lacki; "The Holocaust and World War II", a 102 page, i llustrated
overview of Holocaust history intended as a textbook for tea chers.
"Kristalnacht: The Night of Shattered Glass", a 19 page book let ont the
1938 pogrom which signaled the beginning of the Nazi's plan to destroy
the European Jewish community. A film and video catalog espe cially aimed
at classroom showings, and a children and adult bibliography to assist
teachers in selecting recommended readings.
INFORMATION SERVICES: The Library does not lend materials bu t answers
inquiries or refers patrons to other sources of information. Within the
limitations of its staff it provides reference, literature-s earching, and
other bibliographical services; provides reproduction servic es for fee; conducts
seminars and book discussions; encourages onsite use of coll ections.
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:50:49 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." <SEDELMAN@oavax.csuchico.edu> Subject: Re: Jewish Underground in Poland
To the person interested in the Jewish underground in Poland--please send me a personal note and I shall try to share some sources with you. sedelman@oavax.csuchico.edu
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:51:45 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Daniel F Boyd <boyd@cs.Buffalo.EDU> Subject: Anti-semitism
In-Reply-To: <9306071807.AA17220@electra.cs.buffalo.edu>
GINO_PESCE@cpsnet2.cps.edu writes:
> Any Christian who teaches anti-semitism, using the Bible as a tool
> is NOT A CHRISTIAN.
Aha, the "Not A True Christian" argument. Sorry, won't wash. Christian antisemites still look, sound, and talk like Christians. So they're still Christians. Sure, you may say they're BAD Christians -- and I would agree with you -- but doing something bad doesn't make them non-Christian (and therefore allow fellow Christians to disclaim the actions of others of their religion).
Daniel F. Boyd -- boyd@cs.buffalo.edu
Department of Computer Science
226 Bell Hall
Office: Trailer A (716) 645-3774
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:53:22 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: BERMAN E-MAIL <berman@mars.senecac.on.ca> Subject: RE: Anti-semitism
To the "practicing Christian" (Sorry, you didn't leave a name),
I believe that you are not an anti-semite, as I believe that my Christian friends are not anti-semites. However one cannot deny that many christians have accused the Jews of Killing Christ.
My mother once ran home crying because a friend had told her that her (her friend's) father had told her that my mother's father had killed Jesus. It is no secret that over the centuries, many priests and ministers have preached this very accusation. If tjis is not anti-semitism with a biblical reference, I don't know what is.
By the same token, I was in Nei]w York one Shabbes morning and attended a service at a synagogue. The rabbi, in his sermon, said that "if you scratch any gentile you find an anti-semite". I took great exception to this use of the "pulpit" to spread cultural intolerance, and I DID confront the rabbi after the service. I cannot imagine all my nonjewish friends as closet racists.
HAL BERMAN
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:54:35 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: BERMAN E-MAIL <berman@mars.senecac.on.ca> Subject: Re: Jewish Underground in Poland
To find a good history of the BUND, try the Workmen's Circle in New York. I think they'll have a lot of references for you, but the best I've seen are in Yiddish, so it would help to know it.
H.B.
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:56:00 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Shtetl help needed
Bea,
The information you seek may be found in a guide called _The Stetl Reader_ (or something close to that). The Genealogy bb on Prodigy has a wealth of information on family names, geography, etc. If you don't have access to this service, let me know and I'll post the query for you.
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:57:12 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Announcement
Dear colleagues,
I am currently at work on an anthology of poetry entitled _Flames Ascending: World Poets on the Holocaust_, which is intended to be a sequel to _Blood to Remember: American Poets on the Holocaust_ (Texas Tech University Press, 1991).
I would appreciate any and all of the following:
Although I have already compiled a great deal of material, I remain open to comments and welcome suggestions. Those who wish to assist me in this work should say so: full credit will be given when the book is published.
I can be reached at this list by return post or at any of the following:
Charles Fishman
Dept of English & Humanities
SUNY Farmingdale
Farmingdale, NY 11735
(516) 420-2031 (voice)
(516) 420-2051 (fax)
Fishman@snyfarva
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:59:56 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: ez002658%bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu@ucdavis.BITNET Subject: Scandinavia and the Jews
I would like to locate archives in Denmark that contain information on the Jewish experience in Denmark. I will be traveling to Denmark this fall to conduct dissertation research. I would appreciate any help you can forward to me. Thanks in advance for your help.
Myrna Goodman
University of California, Davis
ez002658@bullwinkle.ucd.edu
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 11:59:39 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives <simonwie@CLASS.ORG> Subject: Re: Shtetl help needed
Where Once We Walked has an entry for Kulczyce Szlacheckie - see Kulchitsy: UKr pop. 67; 62 km SW of Lvov; 49'30"/23'17".
Unfortunately they do not give any further references. The best referebnce source is in Hebrew - Pinkas Hakehillot. There are undoubtedly desscriptions there of what happened in nearby (larger) towns.
I hope this helps.
Paul Hamburg
Reference Librarian
Simon Wiesenthal Center
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 12:01:36 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Michel Eytan, LILoL" <eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Subject: RE: Anti-semitism
At 13:53 8/06/93 -0500, BERMAN E-MAIL wrote:
[deleted]
> By the same token, I was in Nei]w York one Shabbes morning and
>attended a service at a synagogue. The rabbi, in his sermon, said that
>"if you scratch any gentile you find an anti-semite". I took great
>exception to this use of the "pulpit" to spread cultural intolerance, and
>I DID confront the rabbi after the service. I cannot imagine all my non-
>jewish friends as closet racists.
>
>HAL BERMAN
Hal,
I don't want to start mud-throwing. However, as a survivor of the Shoah and later as a kid on the streets in various European countries, I am afraid I must concur with your Rabbi in 90% of the cases... Even later, as an adult, I have had personally some very queer (and saddening) experiences with *close* christian "friends" who were mebbe(?) not even conscious of the enormity of what they said. And things are getting regularly worse here nowadays with old bitch Europe who has 'rien appris ni rien oublie'.
~=michel
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:42:48 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: MCLEODJ@sask.usask.ca Subject: Re: Flames Ascending
Dear Charles,
For translations from German, Russian or Czech into English, you may
contact Dagmar Lieblova, Ph.D. A survivor herself, she works as a
translator for the Terezin Initiative and the Kafka Society in Prague. She
may be reached by FAX: 011-42-2-251031, phone: 011-42-2-353-6875, or you
may write to her at Na Petrinach 78, 16200 Praha 6, Czech Republic.
For your information, I have recently completed, together with Judith Berman and Rose Engel from Los Angeles, a translation of the children's opera Brundibar by Hans Krasa from Czech into English.
Rita McLeod
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:43:54 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: BERMAN E-MAIL <berman@mars.senecac.on.ca> Subject: RE: Anti-semitism
Dear Michel,
I don't want to get into a great argument with you here, but to say that 90% of gentiles are open or closet anti-semites is preposterous! That would mean that at least 50% of my closer friends are anti-semites! We can't fight racism by slandering others. The 90% statement can only upset people who otherwise think of themselves as non-racists.
Of course, it is OK to criticise jews, or parts of judaism, or Israel without being an anti-semite. Often non-jews who somehow object to the killing of palestinian children are labelled anti-semites, while jews who do so are "self-hating". I have news for you. Neither is correct. Jews (as we so often forget) are not perfect! We can do bad things as well as the next person, and should be criticized. Even if we show evidence to exonerate ourselves the exercise is a good one.
No, I can't accept that half of my friends are jew-haters or racists. I know them too well. Some of them respect judaism more than some jews I know. A blanket statement like 90% is racist in itself and should not be tolerated.
HAL BERMAN
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:47:12 CDT Reply-To: Doug Kaufman <bn900@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Doug Kaufman <bn900@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> Subject: HOLOCAUS List Digests
>From the moderator:
HOLOCAUS will be available at a future date in digest form. Unfortunately, we are still running a version of Listserv which does not support digests. We will be upgrading soon.
Have you considered making HOLOCAUS available in digest form? With the number of messages, this would make reading the list more convenient. I presume that the LISTSERVER has been upgraded to the new version, which permits digests.
--
Doug Kaufman
INTERNET: bn900@cleveland.freenet.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:57:02 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: RICHARD JENSEN <CAMPBELLD@APSU.BITNET> Subject: JewStudies #1 of new ejournal
Issue 1.002 June 1993
Abstract:
Jewish Literature/Philip & Mary Sidney's Psalm Translations
Economics and Galician Jews
Socialist/Communist/Labour Zionist organizations
Short Notes:
Agnon/Yehoshua/Oz
Hellenistic-Byzantine archaeology
Psalm 19
Announcements
The Last Jews of Cochin
Youngstown Free-Net
Jewish Studies in Canada - conference
Teddy Kollek
Editorial
The name JewStudies - an open discussion
Printing and Posting the journal
Ted Steinberg (STEINBER@FREDONIA.BITNET) writes:
"I teach in the English Department at SUNY Fredonia, a well-known center of Judaic studies. My alleged areas of expertise are medieval and Renaissance literature (including Judaic material), but I have also done work in Yiddish literature (a book on Mendele Mocher Seforim, for example).
I have just finished some work on Philip and Mary Sidney's sixteenth-seventeenth-century Psalm translations, trying to show that Mary, at least, must have known some Hebrew in order to translate so accurately. I'm also preparing for an experimental course in the fall on Black and Jewish Literature, and I'd be happy to hear from anyone who might want to make suggestions."
"I am a third year Ph. D. candidate at European University Institute in Florence. My subject is the economics of the Jewish group in Galicia, in the years 1869-1914. The theoretical background is furnished by the middleman minority concept along with assumptions on the validity of the economic background of the ethnic conflict. I hope to show links between two phenomena: 1)emancipation of the Jews in Austria and the influx of the Galician Jewry into the rural economy sector (credit and trade market) and 2) emancipation of the Galician peasantry via the development of the network of rural organizations. I will attempt to prove that the axis of ethnic conflict in Galicia revolved around these two processes and to investigate its consequences for the Galicia."
"Hi! My name is Mark Flumerfelt and I am in my first year of a PHD program in history at York University in Toronto. My interests are 19th and 20th century Jewish history in Canada.
Specifically, I hope to examine the development of the various socialist/communist/labour Zionist organizations in Toronto and Montreal. I am presently still doing coursework, and next year I have to prepare for my comprehensives, so I don't imagine that I will get to my dissertation for another year and a half. During that time I hope to acquire a working knowledge of Yiddish and become acquainted with the appropriate sources. If anyone shares an interest in this subject, please drop me a line.
PS - Thanks Avi for putting all this work into Jewstudies. Your effort is appreciated. MF
CA Franke (cafranke@alex.stkate.edu) writes:
"I have recently become enamored of Agnon, been fond of A.B. Yehoshua's and Amos Oz's writings, so look forward to more on these as part of this network. CAFranke, College of St. Catherine, St. Paul MN"
"I am a Professor (and department chair) of Religious Studies at Colby College in Waterville, Maine. I teach in the area of biblical studies and Judaism (ancient and modern). My major research for the last 15-20 years has been in the area of HellenisticByzantine archaeology in Israel. I have excavated at a number of sites in the Galilee (most recently for ten years as an Associate Director of the Excavations at Sepphoris) and also in the Negev (at Nitzana)."
Nathan Katz (NKATZ@CFRVM.BITNET) writes:
"Hello, you may be interested in this recently-published book: Nathan Katz and Ellen S. Goldberg, THE LAST JEWS OF COCHIN: JEWISH IDENTITY IN HINDU INDIA, University of South Carolina Press, 1993, $39.95. "
editor's note: if anyone is interested in more information about this book, please send along a note to Nathan Katz at the University of South Florida asking him to send a more detailed post to JewStudies.
"My name is Marlene Miller. I'm the SysOp of the Judaism SIG on Youngstown Free-Net, and was wondering if you would allow me to post the JEWSTUDIES mail I receive in my mailbox, to the YFN Judaism SIG.
If you'd like, you may telnet to yfn.ysu.edu and log on as Visitor. At the prompt you enter the Judaism SIG (Special Interest Group). There, you can choose the bulletin board (or any other listed board) and look at what I do there. If you like what you see. Perhaps you would give me permission to post your list there, as well.
The Canadian Jewish Historical Society, the national association for Jewish Studies in Canada, will be holding its annual meeting June 7-9 at Carleton University in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada as part of the annual Learned Societies Conference. Space is still available, so make every effort to attend.
==========Editorial==================
Bob Werman (RWERMAN@HUJIVMS.BITNET) writes:
"Pardon me for suggesting that "JewStudies" sounds like "Jew
boy" and similar pejoratives."
Editorial Note: Interesting you say that, since I had originally
requested the name to be JewishStudies, but apparently it was
too long... I think I have rationalized the name by saying that
by (re-) appropriating a pejorative term, it is empowering, much
like the gay-rights movement has done with the terms "queer"
or "dyke".
HOWEVER - I would be interested in hearing what other people
may think about this issue.
============end====================
Jewstudies@nysernet.org
ajhyman = moderator
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:58:28 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: RICHARD JENSEN <CAMPBELLD@APSU.BITNET> Subject: Southern Jewish Historical Society
The Southern Jewish Historical Society is looking for
members. Professional historians & graduate students
interested in the history of Jews in the US South are
invited to join the mailing list for the SJHS newsletter and
annual meeting information.
use snailmail to write:
Lee Shai Weissbach
dept of History
U of Louisville
Louisville KY 40292
(502) 588-6817
tell them HOLOCAUS sent you.
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 10:00:32 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jeffrey A Shandler <jas42@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu> Subject: Passover in camps
I am looking for documentary information about celebrations of Passover
in Concentration Camps or Death Camps--particularly in Belsen in 1944..
Many thanks, Jeffrey Shandler
jas42@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 10:08:39 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: Bruce White 3807 <bw@ws029.torreypinesca.NCR.COM>
Subject: Re: Where it starts
In-Reply-To: <9306071705.aa07674@ncrcom.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>; from "D. Andrew
Kille" at Jun 7, 93 1:30 pm
> A couple quick notes. First, the story of Herod's slaughter of the > innocents _is_ in the book of Matthew (2:16-17).
[analysis deleted]
> Fifthly, there are other more troubling passages in the NT for > grounding future anti-Semites.
Coincidentally I happened to read this section of Matthew last week while I was on vacation. Which passages in the NT do you consider particularly troubling?
Bruce
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 10:09:39 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: Bruce White 3807 <bw@ws029.torreypinesca.NCR.COM>
Subject: Re: Where it starts
In-Reply-To: <9306071704.aa07623@ncrcom.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>; from "Michel Eytan,
LILoL" at Jun 7, 93 1:29 pm
> Dunno if this is the right place, but ever since as an 8-year old child I
> experienced the Shoa I keep wondering Why???
>
> ~=michel
>
I was browsing through the stacks at the UCSD main library a few months ago and glanced through a title or two which dealt with the question "where was God during the Holocaust". I'd like to open up the discussion to this area (if that's OK with the list manager).
Bruce
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 14:45:34 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Flames Ascending
Rita,
Thanks so much for the information about Dagmar Lieblova. In regard to "Brundibar," do you feel that I should consider this work--in whole or part--for inclusion in _Flames Ascending_?
I appreciate your getting in touch.
--Charles Fishman\\\
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 14:46:58 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: JewStudies #1 of new ejournal
I agree with Bob Werman regarding the mis-named JewStudies. Too long? Make the name Jewish.Studies@nysernet.org. I find the use of the perjorative insulting, not empowering.
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 14:49:48 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: MarcM@LETTSCI.SSCNET.UCLA.EDU Subject: Bob Werman's objection to "Jewstudies"
RE: Bob Werman's editorial comment that "Jewstudies" sounds too much like the perjorative "Jewboy".
I would suggest that Bob is internalizing (pardon my psycholingualism) the anti-semitic epithet of "Jew". I have known Jews who experience a cringe when using the singular form of Jew, often going out of their way to say "He's Jewish" rather than "He's a Jew." I posit that the latter is less anti-semitic, the former literally meaning "like a Jew", and if my hunch is correct, I would think that the word "Jewish" has its root in medieval derogatory language describing negative stereotypes of those who were identified as Jews.
Are there any etymologists out there who might shed some light on this?
--Marc Mayerson
marcm@lettsci.sscnet.ucla.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 14:51:03 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: Marilyn Engel <mkengel@ecn.purdue.edu>
Subject: title of new ejournal
Richard,
How about JHstudies for the title? You thereby have the first and last letters of Jewish and retain the word studies. Would that fit.
Good luck.
Marilyn Kopelowitz Engel
mkengel@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:32:53 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Finger <jfinger@mv.us.adobe.com>
Subject: JEWSTUDIES Title is Good
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu,
10 Jun 93 14:51:03 CDT."
<9306101959.AA05094@mail-relay-1.mv.us.adobe.com>
I also thought about JEWSTUDIES when I first saw it, and came to the conclusion that it is, in fact, good.
The potential problem lies in using "Jew" as an adjective rather than a noun, that is, in the classic pejorative manner such "Jew Boy" or "Jew Newspaper".
Well, tough nuggies. This is a logical and convenient abbreviation that we should not HAVE TO avoid. If the Jew-haters out there, may their names and memories be erased, cause us to have to avoid using something that would be convenient and logical to us, we have lost, not them.
So, I think "JEWSTUDIES" is just fine. Yimakh shemam ve'zikhram.
"Jew" is a noun. "Jewish" is an adjective.
Think of the difference between
America History
and
American History
Is this to be a journal about Jews, or a
journal about things Jewish?
One convention that's become pretty much accepted in journal publishing is the acronym. Think of NEJM, or the electronic CCT.
How about E/JJS for the Electronic Journal of Jewish Studies?
Remember, a journal title has to sound serious and academic if you hope to get serious academics to submit papers to it. That's why there is no Journal of Rad Stuff (or whatever the latest hip jargon is).
Of course, if your intention is to put together a journal designed to be titillating and shocking, you are doing just fine.
--Judith Turner
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:37:00 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: HANFTS@conrad.appstate.edu Subject: Re: Southern Jewish Historical Society
Lee Sai:
Can I join the SJHS?
Sheldon Hanft @ APPSTATE.edu
PS.
I'm glad you've posted on the Holocaustn & other nets.
Thanks
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:41:33 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." <SEDELMAN@oavax.csuchico.edu> Subject: Re: JewStudies #1 of new ejournal
I also agree with Bob Werman's perspective on "JewStudies". I do not feel that I am internalizing anything. The connotations are far too old and significant to be dismissed. I would support the name Jewish.Studies suggested earlier. Sam Edelman
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:43:43 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Larry Davis <DAVIS@WSUHUB.UC.TWSU.EDU> Subject: Re: Bob Werman's objection to "Jewstudies"
The question of the negative connotations of JEW caused me to look at a number of sources and I'll try to summarize them here.
First--there seems to have been a movement, mainly by American Jews, some decades ago to eliminate the term JEW as an adjective, so we got the Young Men's HEBREW Association, HEBREW [rather than Jewish] commedians, and so on. McDavid's 1961 edition of Mencken's THE AMERICAN LANGUAGE notes that "if Chicago is representative, of American KULTUR, Conservative, Traditional, and even Orthodox Jews assemble oftener in HEBREW rather than JEWISH congregations" (p. 376).
JEW as a term certainly carries opprobrium in American English. A 1936 version of Roget's THESAURUS even listed JEW as a synonym for LENDER. TO JEW 'to cheat' goes back to at least 1845 (Oxford English Dict.). Not surprisingly the Medieval references to JEW (frequenly spelled Iu or Gyw) are almost always unflattering, since JEW is generally opposed to CHRISTIAN. And Shakespeare's Shylock is, we remember, a Jew and not Jewish.
American dictionaries handle JEW rather interestingly. The Merriam Webster Third New International notes that TO JEW and TO JEW DOWN are "usually taken to be offensive." WEBSTER'S NINTH NEW COLLEGIATE DICTIONARY (based on the above) and The AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY (2nd.ed.) do not list these verbs at all (as if not listing them will make them go away, I wonder?).
It seems clear enough that JEW as a noun seems to fare better than JEW as either a verb or an adjective. I was born a Jew (or Jewish), but clearly was raised JEWISH. My parents were JEWS/JEWISH.
In short, then, JewNet has its problems because of the adjectival use of JEW. Personally, however, I like the term since it has a nice, stark quality to it. Summers are a wonderful time to worry about things like this!
Larry Davis
Wichita State University
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:45:59 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives <simonwie@CLASS.ORG> Subject: Re: Scandinavia and the Jews
The World Jewish Directory lists the folloing Jewish libraries in Copenhagen:
Jewish Library
Ny Kongensgade 6
1472 COPENHAGEN K
Hillel Ron - Librarian
Royal Library
Bibliotheca Judaica Simonseniana
8 Christians Brygge
COPENHAGEN
Paul H. HAmburg
Reference Librarian
Simon Wiesenthal Center
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 09:38:51 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: "D. Andrew Kille" <revdak@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Where it starts
In-Reply-To: <9306101509.AA04037@mail.netcom.com>; from "Bruce White 3807" at
Jun 10, 93 10:08 am
>
> > A couple quick notes. First, the story of Herod's slaughter of the
> > innocents _is_ in the book of Matthew (2:16-17).
>
> [analysis deleted]
>
> > Fifthly, there are other more troubling passages in the NT for
> > grounding future anti-Semites.
>
> Coincidentally I happened to read this section of Matthew last week while I wa
s
> on vacation. Which passages in the NT do you consider particularly troubling?
>
> Bruce
>
Just quickly, the gospel of John in general and his depiction of the crucifixion in particular. John is fond of simply lumping "the Jews" together as the bad guys, and modern christian readers who do not have the historical or critical background tend to form anti-semitic attitudes from a simplistic reading of the text.
--
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 09:40:02 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: MCLEODJ@sask.usask.ca Subject: Re: Flames Ascending
Charles,
I am not sure what exactly are your criteria for inclusion in the
anthology. The Brundibar was composed by Hans (Hanus) Krasa in the late
30s. At that time he lived in Prague and collaborated with Adolf
Hoffmeister on the libretto. As Judith Berman writes in her introduction to
our recent translation: "Little did he know that 50 or so performances
would be given by children passing through Terezin. Before he was shipped
to Auschwitz where he perished, he trained hundreds of children to sing the
parts. Each part had to be learned by many children as no one knew who
would live long enough for the next performance..." If you consider an opera
libretto worthy, I am sure that Judith and Rose would be as pleased as I
would if you included it. We consider our translation as a dedication to
the thousands of children who lived in the Terzin Ghetto. For me the
translation was a particularly important venture, as my mother is one of
these children. Regards Rita
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 09:59:00 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr Subject: RE: Anti-semitism
>Dear Michel,
>
> I don't want to get into a great argument with you here, but to
>say that 90% of gentiles are open or closet anti-semites is preposterous!
>That would mean that at least 50% of my closer friends are anti-semites!
>We can't fight racism by slandering others. The 90% statement can
>only upset people who otherwise think of themselves as non-racists.
>
> Of course, it is OK to criticise jews, or parts of judaism, or
>Israel without being an anti-semite. Often non-jews who somehow object
>to the killing of palestinian children are labelled anti-semites, while
>jews who do so are "self-hating". I have news for you. Neither is correct.
>Jews (as we so often forget) are not perfect! We can do bad things as well
>as the next person, and should be criticized. Even if we show evidence to
>exonerate ourselves the exercise is a good one.
>
> No, I can't accept that half of my friends are jew-haters or racists.
>I know them too well. Some of them respect judaism more than some jews I know.
>A blanket statement like 90% is racist in itself and should not be tolerated.
>
>
>HAL BERMAN
dear mr. berman,
i shall not enter into an argument and do not wish to get into considerations about palestinians -- that have nothing whatever to do in a discussion about *my* experiences with non-jews.
you are lucky with your friends, i ain't with mine.
to put a final touch: i was merely recounting personal experiences. as for being racist myself, have it as you want it; but then the sheep may be said to be an anti-wolf racist. moreover this is yet another well-known anti-semites' argument.
~=michel eytan
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:01:34 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr Subject: Re: French?
>> And things are getting regularly worse here nowadays with old bitch
>> Europe who has 'rien appris ni rien oublie'.
>
>I don't speak French -- what does this mean?
>
>Thanks!
>
>
>Daniel F. Boyd -- boyd@cs.buffalo.edu
>Department of Computer Science
>226 Bell Hall
>Office: Trailer A (716) 645-3774
Fellow netters,
I have gotten several messages about this, so I am posting to the whole list -- sorry for those who are not in need of translation. And I beg your pardon for being too cryptic in the first instance.
This was a famous phrase (about the Emigres after the French Revolution) -- by Talleyrand? don't remember any more -- who had 'learnt nothing and forgotten nothing' when they came back from the Holy German Empire to restore Louis XVIII as King of France.
My allusion was to the fact that we see, here in Europe, a very clear-cut
resurgence of the '30s mentality regarding Jews (in particular
anti-semitism), as if nothing had happened since then -- which they have
the `Hutspah to declare to be the case, since there has purportedly been no
shoah...
--
Michel Eytan, Lab Info, Log & Lang eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr Dpt Info, U Strasbourg II V: +33 88 41 74 29 22 rue Descartes, 67084 Strasbourg FR F: +33 88 41 74 40 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:15:03 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Michel Eytan, LILoL" <eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Subject: Re: JEWSTUDIES Title is Good
>I also thought about JEWSTUDIES when I first saw it, and came to the
>conclusion that it is, in fact, good.
>
>The potential problem lies in using "Jew" as an adjective rather than a
>noun, that is, in the classic pejorative manner such "Jew Boy" or "Jew
>Newspaper".
>
>Well, tough nuggies. This is a logical and convenient abbreviation that
>we should not HAVE TO avoid. If the Jew-haters out there, may their
>names and memories be erased, cause us to have to avoid using something
>that would be convenient and logical to us, we have lost, not them.
>
>So, I think "JEWSTUDIES" is just fine. Yimakh shemam ve'zikhram.
>
>-- Itzhak "Jeff" Finger --
Yits`hak,
originally I had some doubts, but your posting made me change my mind: this is the right attitude to Jew-haters, overt or covert. Z:khor eth she`asah l:kha `amalek!
~=michel
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:17:15 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Michel Eytan, LILoL" <eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Subject: Re: Where it starts
>> Dunno if this is the right place, but ever since as an 8-year old child I
>> experienced the Shoa I keep wondering Why???
>>
>> ~=michel
>>
>
>I was browsing through the stacks at the UCSD main library a few months ago
>and glanced through a title or two which dealt with the question "where was
>God during the Holocaust". I'd like to open up the discussion to this area
>(if that's OK with the list manager).
>
>Bruce
Since Bruce apparently wants to open the discussion, I reproduce here (without Daniel's permission) a posting I sent to 'mail.liberal.judaism':
>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 21:49:08 +0100
>From: eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Michel Eytan)
>Subject: Why? (Meditations on the Warsaw Uprising)
>
>I realize that this list is not the best forum for discussing my question, but
>there are several people on it (some known, many others yet unknown) that I
>very highly respect and their opinion matters to me.
>
>Yesterday evening I attended at Shul the ceremony for the 50th anniversary of
>the Warsaw ghetto uprising and I again asked myself (as I do ever so often
>since at age 8 I was left without my father and 22 members of my close
>family):
>
>WHY did all this happen to us? WHY do we Jews have to suffer in body and mind
>ever since some 3500 years ago we became slaves in Egypt? I believe that Isaac
>was indeed offered up to God, even if not immediately, except that it was 'lo
>e`had bilvad' (not merely him) but all his children and children's children...
>
>Was it to ram down Abraham and his desendance's throat his great crime: to
>imagine a God who would want such a thing? Was it that 'Fathers have eaten
>sour grapes...'?
>
>Of course I know the Orthodox answer: it's because of our sins. But did we
>really sin so much more than the other nations? Are we really a nation of
>immoral, corrupt, murderous vilains -- all of us, including the milions of
>infants that have been slaughtered since we became a people?
>
>The marxist and psycho-analytic answers do not satisfy me any better either.
>
>So WHY? WHY? WHY?
>
>------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:18:50 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jerry Rosenberg <JROSENBE@UA1VM.UA.EDU> Subject: Jewish studies issue
Instead of using the word Jew or Jewish, consider JudaicStudies or
JudeoStudies as more encompassing and with less historical connotations.
While it is disturbing that so much time has to be spent on deciding on
the title for a journal, it does reflect the continuing problem of selfidentification
and imposed identification of Jew, Jewish, Judaic, Judeo,
Hebrews, etc. Unfortunately, history has flavored these words with so
many meanings and with much varied baggage, that it is unlikely anytime soon
that any choice will be without problems.
Jerry Rosenberg
jrosenbe@ua1vm
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:56:35 -0500 Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jim Mott <jimmott@spss.com> Subject: Brundibar
Forwarded message:
> From LISTSERV@uicvm.uic.edu Fri Jun 11 15:43 GMT 1993
> To: MCLEODJ@sask.usask.ca
> Cc: delatizk@bbn.com, Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS%UICVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
> Subject: Brundibar
> In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 11 Jun 93 09:40:02 -0500.
> Reply-To: delatizky%BBN.COM@uicvm.uic.edu
> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 10:53:18 -0400
> Message-Id: <9631.739810398@bbn.com>
> From: delatizk%BBN.COM@uicvm.uic.edu
>
> Have you heard the new recording of _Brundibar_ on Channel Classics? In your
> opinion, is it an adequate (or better) performance? Worth investigating?
>
> <j>
>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:08:04 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Where it starts
On the subject of the Christian background to the _Shoah_, I suggest that all interested parties read Franklin H. Littell's _The Crucifixion of the Jews_. Littell refuses to indulge in ameliorative rhetoric. Whatever your religious allegiance, his book is worthy of your attention.
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:09:08 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Flames Ascending
Rita,
I would me *most happy* to consider the libretto. Although it may not qualify as "poetry," its significance may permit me to include it. At this point in my work, I can make no solid judgment on this, since I have no idea how much room I'll eventually have, how much material I will compile, or what restrictions a potential publisher will impose.
If you and your colleagues can accept this uncertitude, please send a copy of _The Brundibar_ to me.
--Charles Fishman
2956 Kent Rd E
Wantagh, NY 11793
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:10:29 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject: Re: JEWSTUDIES Title is Good
Dear Michel & Itzhak,
No matter how you turn the phrase, "Jewstudies" is simply unappealing, at best, and offensive, at worst. Most significantly, it is unnecessary: it certainly is not either "convenient" or "logical."
When the director of the Nuyorican Cafe in Manhattan came to read for the Latin American Student Organization on campus, he made a big point about his teaching _The Merchant of Venice_ at Rutgers and spoke of a Jewish woman who had nurtured him. However, when I took him out to dinner--he and his black back-up musician, to be exact--he indulged in Jew-baiting the entire time. Excerpts: "What kind of merchant is your father?" "Is your wife a Jewess?"
My father was no kind of merchant. My wife, bless her, is a Jew, who is admired and loved by those who know her (and who does not need to be studied). And anti-Semites come in sheep's clothing as well as in the garb of wolves. Let us not yield to the rhetoric of the oppressors and the sick.
--Charles
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:11:28 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Jewish studies issue
Jerry,
Good suggestions on the title. I, too, hope we can get past this issue quickly.
--Charles
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:38:59 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Dr John Gillies <JOHNG@psy.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Why?
It is presumptuous of me - as a newcomer to this list and a non-Jew -
to enter into this discussion, but it seems to me that the question
"Where was God during the Holocaust?" (or - in the title of Arno
Mayer's wonderful book - "Why Did The Skies Not Darken?") is a
version (albeit perhaps the most powerful and important
version in human history) of the Problem of Evil, with which
philosophers and theologians have wrestled for milennia. Why, if there
is a supremely good Being in control of the universe, does Evil
exist? Why, if God is good, does God allow even a single child to die
of starvation? The problem, of course, is only a problem if one
accepts the original premise.
I have discussed this many times with religious friends - Christians
and Jews - and my conclusion from these discussions is that, in
reality, none of these friends could *conceive of the existence* of
an answer to this question which they would regard as "satisfactory".
They cannot conceive of there *being* a resolution of the "Problem of
Evil" which, however intellectually sophisticated, would actually
lead them to *feel in their hearts* that "now I am content".
I hope fervently that no-one will misunderstand me when I say that,
for me, the question "Where was God during the Holocaust?" is
fundamentally the same question as that asked by a parent whose child
has been murdered while playing in a local park (as happened to a
colleague of mine) - "Why was this terrible thing allowed to
happen?" I don't believe that such things are "allowed" to happen,
but surely the alternative is not to believe that they happen "at
random" ?
My own view is that trying to understand why the Holocaust
occurred is an immensely difficult and complex task. It is also of
supreme importance - but I believe that we are likely to get
closer to an answer by examining the history and psychology of antiSemitism,
the ideology of nazism, the politics and psychology of
oppression and victimisation and related questions. I do not think
this will be an acceptable view to everyone on this list - but the
task is urgent, as we witness again the rise of neo-nazi movements
across Europe.
John Gillies
Department of Psychology
Adam Smith Building
University of Glasgow
Glasgow G12 8RT Tel: (0)41 339 8855 ext.5351
Scotland
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 15:41:35 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET Subject: Re: Why?
Date sent: 11-JUN-1993
The question of "why" is so very broad. In order to begin to attempt to think about it, it seems to me that one needs to specify and direct the question, since it can be discussed on so many levels - historical, philosophical, political, psychological.
The "why" of an 8 year old is not the same as that of a researcher. The 'why' of an 8 year old speaks of the pain that lasts a lifetime, and in some cases cannot be resolved.
As for intellectual inquiries:
"why" the Jews, "why" in Europe, "why" victimization and scapegoating in
general...these all are slightly different inquiries that are related, yet
specific in their own ways... How we feel about it and what we learn
from it are yet another layer.
The most simple answer of course is: why? because it was possible.
It's not a very reassuring answer. But first we must come to understand the specifics of a particular event, which includes both cause and effect and random chance. And then we must come to understand that just because it is possible, and did indeed happen in the way that it did, does not mean that everything else and all other possibilities in life are destroyed as well.
It is hard to live with an unanswered "why"...
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1993 17:00:54 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: LC0380@ALBNYVMS.BITNET Subject: WHY? WHY? WHY?
Why did the Shoah occur? You probably believe that both historical and Biblical explanations cannot provide any answers to explain the life of the Jewish people. This is such an overwhelming question that I can't dare to offer a definitive opinion.
Sometimes, though, I think this: we are all human beings, Jews and non-Jews alike. Non-Jews perpetrated many horrors on the Jewish people, and, as human beings, are in part representatives of the human race. This darkness of the human soul is part of the definition of human beings, like it or not. If human beings have such a spectacular capacity to act out this darkness, then possibly human beings do not have the capacity to explain or understand it. I'm just wondering if anyone can answer your WHY.
I don't mean this as an evasion. And I can't say that this is necessarily my only or final opinion on this subject. I sometimes look upon us Jews as "chosen" for a difficult fate, but I hesitate to say by whom or why.
Laura Cohen
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:47:18 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Why?
John,
Thank you for writing and for sharing your views on this crucial and unresolvable question. By way of reply, here is a poem from my anthology, _Blood to Remember: American Poets on the Holocaust_:
GOD'S DEATH
during the Holocaust
along with the six million
God is slowly dying
golden glares of
Stars of David
blind Him
shattered glass
from Kristallnacht
cuts Him
devilish plans
in Hitler's ravings
deafen Him
Emanuel Ringelblum's pen
scratching his ghetto diary
crazes Him
shrieks of Jews
tortured in experiments
pierce Him
blood of victims
shot naked into pits
drowns Him
Zyklon B gas
shaken into "showers"
poisons Him
stench of smoke
rising from ovens
suffocates Him
even God almighty
can not go on
can not survive
closing Anne Frank's
innocent eyes
in Bergen-Belsen
God flings
Himself
to the four winds
hurls
Himself
beyond the Heavens
banishes
Himself
from the Universe
forever
I say
forever
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:48:20 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Why?
Apologies-- I meant to include the attribution: "God's Death" is a poem by Florence W. Freed, (c) 1985 by Florence W. Freed.
--C. Fishman
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:49:31 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Chris Lasdauskas <u883550@geo.geol.utas.edu.au> Subject: Re: Why?
In-Reply-To: <9306111742.AA28463@geo.geol.utas.edu.au>
Chris Lasdauskas _--_|\ Email : u883550@geo.geol.utas.edu.au Dep't of Geography & / Oz \ Phone : +61 02 202 484 (fax 202 989) Environmental Studies \_.--._/ University of Tasmania V
On Fri, 11 Jun 1993, Dr John Gillies wrote:
> It is presumptuous of me - as a newcomer to this list and a non-Jew - > to enter into this discussion, but it seems to me that the question > "Where was God during the Holocaust?" (or - in the title of Arno
I don't think it is presumptuous of you - the Holocaust affected many millions of non-Jewish people, and killed several million of them. This aside, it is every Human's right, and duty, to discuss such acts of evil - and to act to stop their re-occurrence.
Chris
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:51:26 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: lin collette <BI599128@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject: RE: Anti-semitism
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri,
11 Jun 1993 09:59:00 CDT from <eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Michel, I must second the previous poster's comments about 90% of gentiles being anti-semitic. I was going to comment the last time, but your post made me a little too angry to send a calm note. You can feel persecuted all you like; that's your business. But to generalize as you've done is as bad as my saying that 90% of all Jews are anti-gentile. Or that 90% of Jews are racist or sexist or whatever. Try substituting different maligned racial and ethnic groups and see what you come up with; then you'll see why people get steamed. Blaming and accusations do no good in increasing tolerance and getting people to get along. Yes, we should admit the injustices we have committed against each other, but it solves nothing for blacks or whites or Jews or anyone to keep using said injustices as clubs to beat people with. NOTHING justifies oppression of other peoples in toto. But I think you and others need to realize that we are all prejudiced in some way against SOMETHING/SOMEONE/SOME GROUP. Heaven will be when this is ended. In the meantime, we have to learn to work thru those prejudices and to work with each other. Comments such as yours don't contribute to that at all.
lin collette (bi599128@brownvm.brown.edu) or (bi599128@brownvm)
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:53:48 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: LC0380@ALBNYVMS.BITNET Subject: Protocols of the Elders of Zion
This is in part a private message, but I believe that the list members as a whole will be interested:
Last week someone from the University of New Hampshire--whose name and address I failed to save--sent me a message, one part of which queried how it would be possible to get a copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion without having to join a neo-Nazi group. Good question! I sent a email message to the Simon Wiesenthal center, asking how to get a copy of PAZ. The response listed two books, which contain PAZ in English translation:
> The Truth About 'The Protocols of Zion': A Complete Exposure by Herman Bernstein (New York: Ktav, 1971) Exhibit F contains the English translation of PAZ.
> Warrant for Genocide: The Myth of the Jewish World-Conspiracy and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion by Norman Cohn (Harper & Row, 1966)
Laura Cohen
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 12:09:17 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." <SEDELMAN@oavax.csuchico.edu> Subject: Re: Flames Ascending
Judith Berman helped us out a number of years ago in developing a radio documentary on Terezin and Brundibar in particular. I am pleased to see that she now has a new translation out of the opera. Brundibar is an important cultural artifact of the Holocaust which speaks volumes to children. I look forward to seeing your work Rita. Sam Edelman, Dept of Communication Arts and Sciences, CSU-Chico, Chico, CA 95929-0502 sedelman@oavax.csuchico.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:42:37 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: BERMAN E-MAIL <berman@mars.senecac.on.ca> Subject: RE: WHY? WHY? WHY?
Why?
Who can answer that question?
Hitler, Eichman, Speer, etc... those who did it are the only ones who might know. I'll bet most of the murderers, evil as they were, did not even know thw fundamental reason why they were being asked to do this. They most likely responded to the rhetoric of their leaders. This is most definitely not an "excuse", but it appears to me the only answer I can think of to explain what happened, the bandwagon effect that occured.
The motivating factors that brought this about will always be a mystery to me, and I think to anyone who finds the idea of the systematic attempt to anihilate millions of innocent victims abhorent.
I had an aquaintance for a brief period of time who sincerely thought that the Jews had it coming to them. He happened to have been of German descent but that does not appear to be a prerequisite nowadays. He said that the Jews were a threat to Hitler and the logical solution was to kill them, just as the jews would have killed him had they had the chance.
He could never explain to me exactly how Jews in Shtetles, old and young, most not even in Germany and many poor, without political or economic power, could be a threat to Hitler. But he maintained that they were and that Hitler was justified. Then he went on to dispute the actual details of the holocaust, and I decided that there was no point in proceding with the issue (I "met" him on a BBS, I then saw him once, and have no idea (or concern of) what he is doing now).
How do you argue with that? How do you educate "that"? If anyone knows, please tell me.
HAL BERMAN
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:44:13 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Raymond G. Harder" <rharder@eis.calstate.edu> Subject: Re: Bob Werman's objection to "Jewstudies"
In-Reply-To: <9306102146.AA02169@eis.calstate.edu>
Of course his reaction was psychological, internal, and pscholinguistic! That is exactly the point. Words mean what we "feel" they mean moreso than what we "know" they mean. I could give a detailed etymological and lexical definition of "Jew," but it would be meaningless! Words have power based on their context which is made up of the situation in which they are used AND the totality of the situations in which the users have experienced them before. As a White Anglo-saxon Protestant I find it an offensive term inmost contexts and therefore think that it should NOT be used in this context. Yes, it is sad that the Anti-semites have taken away a perectly good word, but the fact is that they have and it cannot be taken back except by historical accident, usage, and most importantly time--lots of time.
It is similar to the word "nigger." I recall very vividly being offended to hear my father use this word pejoratively once as a child. I was surprized because I had never known my father to be intolerant or bigoted in any way. He had always treated people equally. Perhaps this made this all the more of a stark uttering.
However, the most offensive use of the word I ever heard was my first day on the job at an inner city school when I heard one fifth grade black boy call another a "dumb ghetto-black nigger." I came unglued! I made it very clear that I would not tolerate the use of "that word" in my classroom or in my presence. My students found it somewhat amusing that I would be offended by a word that they used regularly. Why should I care if they didn't? I told them that it was a symbol for me of many things that I had fought against and more importantly for them of things their immediate forefathers had fought against. The reality of how they were using it (quite innocently) could not overcome the symbolic power of the word.
Regarding the comments implying that most non-jews are anti-semites, I grew up in white, republican Orange County California where I think the first black student in any of my schools came in my junior year of high school and "Hebrews" ;-)> were scarce as hen's teeth (I knew two families in 20 years). I can assure you that no one I knew ever donned a white sheet and very, very few ever demonstrated even verbal racial prejudice (epithets, jokes, slurs, etc....) in my presence. As a whole, we (whoever "we" are) aren't out to get you (whoever "you" are). For the most part we never paid any attention to you or your lot in life at all. In a world like ours, perhaps that is the greatest evil of all....
To explain why Shoah occurred, a structure or at minimum, a consensus of widely accepted assumptions, must exist if a broad general explanation is to be established. Unfortunately, no such structure exists. For the orthodox, who accept one set of assumptions, Shoah is either divine retribution for Jewish transgressions or a mysterious part of an incomprehendable divine plan whose ultimate course and cause is known only to the creator.
When Rabbi Rubenstein, the author of "The Cunning of History," was told by an orthodox Luthern prelate that Hitler was the instrument of divine punishment for the Jews, just as the Berlin wall & a divided nation was Germany's punishment for Shoah, he rejected a religious explanation for a secular one which assumes that Shoah was another case of Humankind's inhumanity. In his explanation Jews developed a "defeated peoples" posture which enable them to survive by suffering limited periods of persection. He then shows how the century before Shoah changed conditions in Germany which enabled the Nazi to change the rules which had enabled Jews to survive earlier persecutions. The methods which enabled them to endure earlier persecutions left them vulnerable to the deceptions of the Nazis and to the death camps while the world did little to help them and they were very unequipped to help themselves.
While someone earlier suggested that Shoah happened, because it could happen, she hit on the other popular set of assumptions. The emergence of the totalitarian state (i.e. Hannah Arent) made possible the regimentation, ideology, instrumentality, (pick your preferred emphasis) etc., which made it possible for a ruling elite to marshal the resources of the nation to facilitate the genocide of one/several sizeable groups of its citizens.
The recurrance of this methodology (to various degrees) used in Indonesia against the ethnic Chinese, by Pol Pot's followers in their "killing fields" to say nothing of the genocide of the Soviet peasant class under Stalin or the current acts of "ethnic cleansing" in the Balkan (in some cases by groups who have direct ties to the fascist colaberators in WW II).
It seems to me that Shoah is clearly a case of Human inhumanity (unless you want to postulate that the God's of all these peoples have a coordinated punishment program operating, with localized variations to fit indigenous conditions and groups). It also seems clear to me that the failure of people of "good will," both then and now, to oppose these efforts at genocide make possible their longevity. I have difficulty in understanding why the U.S., Great Brittain, Canada, etc. sening dozens of bombing raids all over Europe in 1943, 1944 & 1945 couldn't spare a dozen planes once a week, or once a month or once a year to destroy the railroad tracks taking people to the death camps? Why could we not bomb the plants where Ziclon B gas was manufactured?
The tolerance of the anti-semitism of Pat Buchannan and Pat Robertson in the 1992 election campaign is part of a broad attitude which ignores the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, the ethnic warfare in areas like Azurbyjan (S. central region of old Soviet Union) and the racial/religious civil strife in the Sudan. By tolerating, as a nation and a society, these acts of genocide, we take some steps in the shoes of those whose silence made Shoah possible.
Sheldon Hanft (hanfts@appstate.edu)
History Dept.
Appalachian State Univ.
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:48:33 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives <simonwie@CLASS.ORG> Subject: Re: Brundibar
A second recording of Brundibar has recently become available on the
Romanitic Robot label as part of the two-CD set Terezin 1941-1945.
It is distributed in the US by Albany Music Group. With an all-Czech
ensemble I believe it to be a superior recording to the one on Channel.
I have found that the children's voices are difficult to understand
on the Channel recording (the orchestra seems far too loud).
The entire set is a superb survey of Terezin music - piano, chamber
music, vocal as well as the recording of Brundibar.
It is however a bit pricy - $40 for the set at Tower.
Paul H. Hamburg
Reference Librarian
Simon Wiesenthal Center
e-mail: simonwie@class.org
,
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:51:17 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Matthew Spewak" <mspewak@walnut.prs.k12.nj.us> Subject: Neo Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL]
This weekend I was watching MTV news, and they did a bit on neo natzi underground bbs systems. These underground systems entitle any user to gain information on creating and building bombs, napalm, and other various information on how to obtain ilegal weapons and drugs. In addition to this, the users are asked to leave names and addresses of Jews, Blacks, or Gays that they would like to be "round up".
This news brief particularly disturbed me, as I am an active member on a great number of useful legitimate bbs's, and find these Hate BBS disgusting. I hope that we can do something to stop these bbs, maybe turn them in to the FCC or FBI.
Also, (although I am not usually impressed by MTV's specials) MTV is airing a special on Neo Natzis on June 16th.
-MS
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 15:53:12 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Cecelia A Clancy <cacst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Dominican Republic Sosua Settlement
Dear Seth,
I have checked _Paper Walls_ by David Wyman and there are a few things mentioned relevant to the Sousa settlement on pages 50 and on pages 61 - 62. Additionally, many references are cited by Wyman in the Notes section of _Paper Walls_ as well as the bibliography which follows.
Briefly, he states that at the Envian Conference, the Dominican Republic alone offered any real offers of a place or of a plan to settle Jewish refugees from Europe when that conference met at the French resort town of Evian-les-Bains in July 1938 [1],[2].
I propose that the Evian Conference was nothing more than an excuse for a junket as far as the majority of its participants were concerned. The Conference was called by FDR very soon after the Anschluss of April 1938, of the 33 invited nations, Italy alone declined (Wyman writes "refused" [3]). The conference was then very swiftly organized - at THAT part of the job. everybody seemed quite enthusiastic - but once all to those delegates finally arrived in the resort town, there "enthusiasm" for "real work" seems to have waned, for very little practical work, and a lot of "busy work" and "make work" got done there.
And Wyman in _Paper Walls_ [4] suggests that the Dominican Republic had a primary motive that would surprise us and would infuriate the hard-core anti-Semites: To increase the percentage of Whites among the Dominican Republic's populace. (Among the hard-core anti-Semites, the Jews are considered to be non-Whites.)
A small settlement, the Sosua settlement, eventually was founded in the Dominican Republic as result of actions initiated at the Envian Conference.
Wyman, in the Notes section at the end of his book, cites the following references that might be helpful in researching the Sosua settlement [5].
_Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1938, I, 764-765, 773, 849
_Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1939, II, 70-71
_Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1940 (Washington, 1957) II, 213
Bruno Lasker, "An Atlas of Hope", _Survey Graphic_, XXIX,
(November 1940), 590.
Sumner Wells to Franklin D. Roosevelt, February 27, 1939,
Franklin D. Roosevelt Papers, Official File 3136,
_Contemporary Jewish Record_, II (September-October 1939),
100.
Dominican Republic Settlement Association, Inc, _Concerning
Refugee Settlement in the Dominican Republic: A Meeting at
the Town Hall Club, New York City, February, 1940_ (New
York, 1940).
Seth, find out the names of the people who attended
this meeting, and then, since you are in the NYC
area, look up the names in the local phone directories.
Maybe you will find somebody who can give you a
first-person account.
Atherton Lee, _Agricultural Possibilities at Sosua Settlement_,
(New York [1940]), pages 1-2.
Earl P. Hanson, "New Citizens for Dominica", _Christian
Science Monitor_, Weekly Magazine Section, August 10, 1940,
page 13.
Joseph A. Rosen, "New Neighbors in Sosua", _Survey Graphic_,
XXX (September, 1941), pages 474-478.
Dominican Republic Settlement Association, Inc., _Sosua: Haven
for Refugees in the Domenican Republic (New York, 1941),
pages 4, 6, 8-10, 16
_Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1941 (Washington, 1958),
I, 438.
_Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1942 (Washington, 1960),
I, 451-452.
_Refugee Settlement in the Dominican Republic: A Survey Conducted
Under the Auspices of the Brookings Institution_ (Washington, 1942),
285, 287, 327, 331, 332, 340.
Louise W. Holborn, _The International Refugee Organization_
(London, 1956), 405.
References:
Crisis 1938 - 1941_, First Paperback Edition, (Panthenon Books, New York, 1985), page 61 - 62
Based on Wymans doctoral thesis (1966, History Department,
Harvard University) and originally published by the
University of Massachusetts Press, Amherst, 1968)
2. _Ibid_, pages 48-49
3. _Ibid_, page 45
4. _Ibid_, page 61
5. _Ibid_, page 240
Cecelia Mu"llermeder muller+@pitt.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 15:55:02 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: Eliot Friedman <ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil>
Subject: Re: Neo Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL]
In-Reply-To: <9306141640.aa01790@thama1.apgea.army.mil> from "Matthew Spewak"
at Jun 14, 93 02:51:17 pm
Matthew informed us>
> This weekend I was watching MTV news, and they did a bit on neo natzi
.
> Also, (although I am not usually impressed by MTV's specials) MTV is airing a
> special on Neo Natzis on June 16th.
Although I appreciate Matthew's information, one has to wonder what material like this is doing on MTV, supposedly a MUSIC and ENTERTAINMENT channel. Perhaps part of the problem is that the network executives see Nazism as entertainment, and highly profitable entertainment at that.
-Eliot
ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 15:56:04 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: STONE@UWPG02.BITNET Subject: Protocols of the Elders of lZion
I saw copies of the "Protocols" for sale on a sidewlk table somewhere in downtown New York City, probably in June 1992. The table was staffed by Black Muslims or similarly dressed people.
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 16:56:20 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Daniel F Boyd <boyd@cs.Buffalo.EDU> Subject: NEO Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL]
In-Reply-To: <9306141952.AA06993@electra.cs.buffalo.edu>
"Matthew Spewak" writes:
> This weekend I was watching MTV news, and they did a bit on neo
> natzi underground bbs systems.
The Neo-Nazis also have newsletters, office space, and laser printers; of course they have BBSs. BFHD.
> These underground systems entitle any user to gain information on > creating and building bombs, napalm,
So does the public library.
> and other various information on how to obtain ilegal weapons and > drugs.
Ask any ex-con. (This is probably how the Nazis found out.)
> In addition to this, the users are asked to leave names and > addresses of Jews, Blacks, or Gays that they would like to be "round > up".
While this is scary-sounding, remember that this nation has civil law and order. No gangs of brown-shirted thugs are going to be running around beating up on people -- it would be all over the local news and something would be done about it damn quick by the FBI. This country still works.
> This news brief particularly disturbed me, as I am an active member > on a great number of useful legitimate bbs's, and find these Hate > BBS disgusting.
So do I. But shutting them down isn't the answer.
> I hope that we can do something to stop these bbs, maybe turn them > in to the FCC or FBI.
It's not within the government's power to shut them down; this is so the government can't also shut down that local news program I mentioned earlier. The Nazis were able to run Germany because they controlled all the news and all the sources of information. To prevent anything like that from happening here, we explicitly outlaw any attempt to muzzle anybody.
It means the Neo-Nazis can repetitively auto-post all the paranoid ravings they want to alt.censorship and soc.history -- but it also means that no Nazi-sympathizer local sheriff or police chief could muzzle the media and cover up neo-Nazi activities in his community.
That's why we don't want censorship in this country. It doesn't work and it lets bad people get control.
> Also, (although I am not usually impressed by MTV's specials) MTV is airing a > special on Neo Natzis on June 16th.
Of course, everything on MTV is sociopathic silliness and should be outlawed immediately! (Here I'm kidding. Though you might make a case that "Achy Breaky Heart" is an abomination.)
Daniel F. Boyd -- boyd@cs.buffalo.edu
Department of Computer Science, 226 Bell Hall
Buffalo NY 14260
Office: Trailer A (716) 645-3774
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 16:58:07 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: Aviad Sheinfeld <sheinfel@ssd.comm.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Neo Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL]
In-Reply-To: <199306142056.AA13378@ftpbox.mot.com> from "Eliot Friedman" at
Jun 14, 93 03:55:02 pm
>From the fingertips of Eliot Friedman came forth:
>
> Matthew informed us>
> > This weekend I was watching MTV news, and they did a bit on neo natzi
> .
> .
> > Also, (although I am not usually impressed by MTV's specials) MTV is airing
a
> > special on Neo Natzis on June 16th.
>
> Although I appreciate Matthew's information, one has to wonder what
> material like this is doing on MTV, supposedly a MUSIC and ENTERTAINMENT
> channel. Perhaps part of the problem is that the network executives
> see Nazism as entertainment, and highly profitable entertainment at that.
>
> -Eliot
> ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil
>
Eliot,
Well, that is one way to see it. MTV is actually more of a "young viewers" network than a strictly "music television" network. They have plenty of shows and specials that deal with issues like environmentalism, safe sex, voting, etc. Perhaps we should wait to see the special before taking a negative stance against its legitimacy. And if the show turns out to be informative and raises even a few people's awareness of the problems which are still very much alive today, we should applaud the network for its social responsibility.
How can you jump the gun and denounce MTV for bringing up such an important issue? Remember that the audience will be largely young. MTV viewers feel empowered to change the future, why stifle them?
Do you feel that a special on Nazism today would make more of an impact if shown on MTV during prime time, or on PBS some Sunday morning?
The spread of information is crucial.
Aviad
"A young person"
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 16:59:36 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2 From: Ksenia Kopystynska <KKOPYSTY@UALTAVM.BITNET> Subject: RE: Anti-semitism
In-Reply-To: note of 93-06-14 13:37
From: Ksenia Kopystynska
Education Library
University of Alberta
I agree with Lin. Almost always when I want to get in some contact with Jews I am automatically accused of being antysemitic because I am a Pole. Often I am not given any chance to prove that I am not. I am being accused of all sins from the past. Doesn't matter what I say is wrong. How to change it? I do not know. Sorry for what I will say, but I think that you used to antysemitism so much that it become essential for your identity to this degree that it is difficult to convince you that not always is like that. And one more thing. In my understanding I am responsible for things I do or do not. I am not responsible for past and for other people deeds. Judge me for what I am not for what others did to you.
Ksenia Kopystynska
Regards,
Ksenia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 13:28:49 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: "Richard S. Levy" <U56341@UICVM.BITNET>
Subject: Protocols
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion can be had in many languages and in many libraries. Henry Ford published an English language version in the 20s, but there are many others. You can find a representative chunk of it translated into English (from a German version) in Richard S. Levy, Antisemitism in the Modern World: an Anthology of Texts (D. C. Heath, 1990). Pardon the advertisement. Norman Cohn's book is informative about the various incarnations of the forgery and the materials which went into its production by the Paris branch of the Okhrana in the mid-1890s. But it doesn't reproduce much text.
Don't join the Nazi party. Take it out of the library and hie thee to a xerox machine.
Richard S. Levy
UIC
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 13:30:06 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: lin collette <BI599128@BROWNVM.BITNET> Subject: Re: Protocols of the Elders of Zion
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:53:48 CDT from <LC0380@ALBNYVMS>
One does not have to join a neo-nazi group to get the Protocols. For example, copies are readily available for loan from my institution's library, although I do own my own copy. However, to purchase a copy, you may need to get a catalog from a right wing group, such as Noontide Press or Liberty Bell Publications. Quite frankly, this is probably the only 'easy' source you're going to find. Hold your nose and do it; I do, in the name of research, and not because I subscribe to their principles
lin collette (bi599128@brownvm or bi599128@brownvm.brown.edu)
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 13:31:53 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: BERMAN E-MAIL <berman@mars.senecac.on.ca> Subject: RE: NEO Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL]
Luckily, In Canada, where sanity prevails, I believe it is possible to shut down BBS's which promote hatred.
That said, Canada is one of the leading exporters in the world of hate and holocaust denial literature.
That said, a mob of antiracists trashed the toronto home of a known hate-monger / neo-nazi last week as 12 police officers looked on. While there is an investigation going on as to why they allowed it to happen (I for one, while having no sympathy for the victim, was surprised at the police inactivity) the cops said that most of the riot police had been sent to another location, the home of the leader of the more prominent HERITAGE FRONT (Wolfgang Droege), in anticipation of an attack there and there were too few police on hand to prevent damage without people being hurt.
HMM...................
Incidentally, aside from a few campus efforts, where have the jews been while thousands of Bosnians, Serbs and Croates are getting ethnically cleansed? I know that it is hard to chose who is right or wrong in this mess, but should we not be standing up and pressing for UN invasion and peace creation?
How can we ask WHY? to the question of allied support for us if we do not push for that same support for the innocent victims that are in trouble now?
HAL BERMAN
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 13:32:56 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: BERMAN E-MAIL <berman@mars.senecac.on.ca> Subject: RE: Anti-semitism
In reply to the remarks by Ksenia Kopystynska:
I understand your beef with jews that automatically consider you to be an anti-semite. I would say you must hang around the wrong Jews because we're not all like that. By the same token, I would Jews because we're not all like that. By the same token, I would suggest that those Jews have been hanging around the wrong Poles because they have built up a stereotype which you emphasize is wrong.
I don't know. I have met polish non-jews in my short, 24 year lifespan. None of the ones I've gotten to know have shown any signs of anti-semitism. Many of the Poles my grandfather knew when he lived there were friendly to him. Others were not so friendly. One has only (disregard the last three words of the above line)
On the other hand, while there were some Poles who hid Jews, some did so at great cost (others, hiding children tried to Baptize them and turn them into Christians, and the current pope is known for having refused to do this in one case, to his credit). And there were far too many Poles who sold a Jew's life for a pound of sugar.
The problem is similar to the problem many Jews have with Germans. The generalization is that The Germans started it and the Poles willingly helped as best they could. This is inaccurate because there were obviously some righteous people, albeit a minority.
It is wrong for people to assume that you are an anti-semite just because you are Polish. I hope this does not colour your opinion of all jews because of the "once-bitten-twice-shy" attitude of those you have met.
Respectfully,
HAL BERMAN
I welcome comments or replies (BERMAN@MARS.SENECAC.On.CA)
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 13:34:32 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Brundibar
Mr. Hamburg,
Many thanks for information about the two-CD Terezin music set, inclusive of the Brundibar.
Do you have either of the following in your archives and data files:
I will look forward to reading your reply.
--Cordially,
Charles Fishman
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 13:35:47 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Neo Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL]
MS,
I urge you to contact the Simon Wiesenthal Center regarding these underground bbs. If they are advocating violence against specific groups and individuals--as the lists you mention would imply--the Center should be able to help.
Charles
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 15:05:12 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Marilyn Engel <mkengel@ecn.purdue.edu>
I am interested in receiving any information on
Januzs Korschak
including his educational philosophy, his books, his orphanages, his radio broadcasts, his time in the concentration with his orphanage children, as well as the names, mail and possibly email addresses and phone numbers of people who worked with him and/or were wards or students of his.
The names and addresses of schools and/or teachers using his educational methods would also be very helpful.
Please send any of the above information as well as any other pertinent information to
for Liba Engel.
Thank you.
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 15:08:18 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: Eliot Friedman <ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil>
Subject: Why don't we take a stand on ex-Yugoslavia?
In-Reply-To: <9306151442.aa00308@thama1.apgea.army.mil> from "BERMAN E-MAIL"
at Jun 15, 93 01:31:53 pm
Hal Berman asks>
>Incidentally, aside from a few campus efforts, where have the jews been >while thousands of Bosnians, Serbs and Croates are getting ethnically >cleansed?
>I know that it is hard to chose who is right or wrong in this mess, >but should we not be standing up and pressing for UN invasion and >peace creation?
>How can we ask WHY? to the question of allied support for us if we do >not push for that same support for the innocent victims that are in >trouble now?
This is a tough one. Many well-intentioned people think "something must be done". Perhaps foremost among them is Elie Weisel, who stressed this topic at the opening of the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC recently.
The question is, what CAN be done? From a military point of view, not much. In ex-Yugoslavia, there are a lot of people with guns who REALLY want to kill each other, and have been doing so for HUNDREDS of years. Simply sending in UN or NATO troops, no matter how pure their intentions, won't solve the problem.
Witness the recent events in Somalia. UN troops, on a "mission of mercy", were attacked by a Somali faction. Now UN forces are attacking and killing the Somalis they were sent in to "save". Having the biggest and best army doesn't necessarily mean one can make everything work out beautifully.
Looking back to the Nazi era (funny how current events are turning it into just "another" holocaust), I now have a better understanding of what it must have been like for many of those people we now accuse of having "stood by" while it all happened. I know what's going on in ex-Yugoslavia, I deplore it, I want to do something to stop it, but I have no idea how. Just sending in more guns won't stop the killing.
-Eliot
ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 16:51:43 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." <SEDELMAN@oavax.csuchico.edu>
For the person interested in Korczak see the Betty Jean Lifton Book. It is most comprehensive. The Ghetto Fighters Museum publishes his diary and there is an excellent work on his collected writing on education published by UNESCO. Sam Edelman
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 09:33:34 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: Holocaust Center--San Francisco <holo@kg6kf.ampr.org>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <9306152201.AA00695@cs.sfsu.edu>; from "Sam Edelman,
Ph.D." at Jun 15, 93 4:51 pm
>
> For the person interested in Korczak see the Betty Jean Lifton Book. It is
> most comprehensive. The Ghetto Fighters Museum publishes his diary and there
> is an excellent work on his collected writing on education published by UNESCO
.
> Sam Edelman
>
Sam, June 21 at 12:30 PM is fine. Will see you then.
Barbara Goodman
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 09:34:46 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: Louis de Groot <lou@kg6kf.ampr.org>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <9306152201.AA00695@cs.sfsu.edu>; from "Sam Edelman,
Ph.D." at Jun 15, 93 4:51 pm
Sam,
We have experienced system's troubles so I am forwarding Barbara Goodman's message that she will be happy to meet with you at 12:30 PM on 6/21.
Louis de Groot
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:28:30 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: "Robert A. Book" <rbook@rice.edu>
Subject: RE: Anti-semitism
In-Reply-To: <9306142243.AA26071@moe.rice.edu>; from "Ksenia Kopystynska" at
Jun 14, 93 4:59 pm
> From: Ksenia Kopystynska
> Education Library > University of Alberta
> I agree with Lin. Almost always when I want to get in some contact with > Jews I am automatically accused of being antysemitic because I am a Pole. > Often I am not given any chance to prove that I am not. I am being accused
I am Jewish, and I never assume that anyone is antisemitic unless they show some evidence of it. I have been friendly with many people who are Polish, German, and even Arab, and only a few have shown signs of antisemitism. Some have been close friends, yet quite aware that I was Jewish. In some cases, I was the first Jew they ever knew well, and I think that by being friendly and open and accepting, I showed them that there was nothing "wrong" with Jews, and probably greatly reduced the chances that those individuals would end up antisemitic.
I don't know if we can solve the problems of bigotry one friendship at a time, but it sure couldn't hurt.
--Robert Book
Rice University
rbook@rice.edu
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:29:38 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET Subject: Re: Anti-semitism
Every person is a combination of both individual traits and collective, cultural attitudes, as well as generational ones. We all inherit certain unresolved issues from our parents, and cultural blueprints, that shape the way we respond to the present. To assume that we are a tabula raza is naive. To assume that we cannot overcome inherited assumptions and attitudes and form independent, individual lives, is defeatist.
To the Polish woman who feels persecuted by Jewish mistrust - she would do well to first acknowledge the antisemitism and indifference of Poles during World War II, even if she was not born then. Acknowledge the facts. You will only gain respect for this. Then go find some new Jewish friends who don't need to find an antisemite under every stone.
To Jews who cry antisemitism (particularly diaspora Jews) every time they don't get their way - get a life. A victim identity is not attractive or healthy.
To the woman who wants to change Michel's feelings about non-Jews, forget it. You didn't go through what he did, and thankfully never will. In his experience, most non-Jews were antisemitic - it was in a time and a place where that was true. Vent your energies in other directions. Don't try to change a survivor's feelings. Instead, if you listen, you might learn something. This doesn't mean you have swallow other people's conclusions as lessons for yourself. Don't take it so personally.
sorry this got so long...
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:31:23 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET Subject: Re: Why?
Date sent: 15-JUN-1993
Fishman:
Here's another poem, written by a survivor friend of mine. If you are still accepting contributions to your anthology and are interested, contact me directly at the address below.
Blessed are those
Who, in the fullness of time,
Pass on -
Peacefully in their beds,
Surrounded by gentleness
To ease their pain, hold their hands,
And comfort them.
They are loved, and mourned,
And flowers cover their graves.
They are forever the envy of those
Who perished
In mute despair,
Twisted shapes by the roadside
In cramped, foul-smelling barracks
Tormented, degraded
Torn from their past
Robbed of their future
Betrayed by humanity.
No flowers for them,
Only smoke
Coiling contorted, accusing fingers
At the sky.
The agony of another man -
Of many -
Echoes through the centuries:
God, my God,
Why hast thou forsaken me - ?
Marianne Bern
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:32:51 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Bruce White 3807 <bw@ncrtory.TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com> Subject: Ethnic cleansing
> Incidentally, aside from a few campus efforts, where have the jews been
> while thousands of Bosnians, Serbs and Croates are getting ethnically
> cleansed?
> I know that it is hard to chose who is right or wrong in this mess,
> but should we not be standing up and pressing for UN invasion and peace
> creation?
>
> How can we ask WHY? to the question of allied support for us if we do
> not push for that same support for the innocent victims that are in trouble
> now?
>
>
> HAL BERMAN
>
I think that's a good point. I had seen a TV show a few years ago which I believe Ed Asner hosted. He discussed how the US military had been flying aircraft directly over one of the concentration camps, and showed a picture of the camp (maybe it was Auschwitz) taken from one of the planes. I think that a survivor of the camp was interviewed and he had prayed that the Allies bomb the camp.
Is it possible that Roosevelt gave orders not to bomb the concentration camps?
With regard to the slaughter of civilians in Yugoslavia, what is the Moslem world doing to aid their brothers who are being murdered?
Bruce
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:37:14 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Richard S. Levy" <U56341@UICVM.BITNET> Subject: dealing with the devil
I think it's a symbolically big mistake to support the radical right by buying their books. Most versions of the Protocols are short and, if not already in the public domain, safely xeroxable. I doubt anyone can or would claim copyright rights. Moreover, you don't want to get onto the Whit e Power-Revisionist-Liberty Lobby paranoid mailing list, do you?
Richard S. Levy
UIC
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:38:32 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Daud R. Matthews" <D03T005@SAKSU00.BITNET> Subject: Anti-semetic?
According to the Oxford Dictionary (learners edition) semetic refers to of the Hebrews and Arabs.
For my part I wonder how all Jews can be semites when some are NOT descended from the "Children of Israel" having embraced Judaism through conversion, as in the case of many from the xUSSR?
Hal's comment on where are the Jews with respect to the situation in Bosnia, secondhand I understand of the nominal 2000 Jews in Sarajevo 1000 have left, they saw the situation developing and had passports etc all organized. The 1000 or so left have organized the Synogogue in Sarajaveo as an emergency aid centre for the Muslims, thanx to them. Apparently, this is partially in gratitude for what the Muslims did for them when the Nazi's came.
I wonder how long it will be before what is happening to the Turks in Germany starts to include the Jews (again)?
Those who really are upset by anti-semetics might like to ponder on this.
In fact, no one seems to mention the Spanish Inquisition and the Ottomans
offering a safe haven for the Jews. Where is this situation today?
IMHO Christianity is the most intolerant religion.
Peace
Daud R. Matthews: King Saud University, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
P.S. I have met many Jews whom I would personally refer to as "paranoid".
By this I mean, they over emphasise the situation, AND I do not mean
this offensively.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 16:32:06 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: Daniel F Boyd <boyd@cs.Buffalo.EDU>
Subject: Anti-semetic?
In-Reply-To: <9306161939.AB23010@electra.cs.buffalo.edu>
"Daud R. Matthews" writes:
> According to the Oxford Dictionary (learners edition) semetic refers
> to of the Hebrews and Arabs.
It's 'semitic'.
The word 'antisemitism' is taken from the name of a political party in (I think Germany) in the (I think 19th) century. They called themselves the 'Anti-Semites' and they hated Jews. Jews don't call themselves 'Semites', they call themselves Jews.
Jewish people didn't make up that word.
'Semitic' also refers to a linguistic grouping which includes both Hebrew and Arabic, but that's also irrelevant as far as ending wars goes -- both sides spoke the same language at Yorktown and Gettysburg.
> For my part I wonder how all Jews can be semites when some are NOT descended > from the "Children of Israel" having embraced Judaism through conversion, > as in the case of many from the xUSSR?
What difference does it make? If the conversion is according to Jewish law, then the convert is truly and fully a Jew. Your question gets more at the inadequacies of natural language for describing set theory than it does at who's Jewish and who isn't, or who's a semite and who isn't.
It's like asking, "Well, if 'American' means 'someone from America', and if someone born in Japan moves to the US and becomes a United States Citizen, then how can all US Citizens be Americans?" It's a dumb question, and the wrong answer to it meant that innocent people lost their homes and businesses. Who your parents were matters a lot less than what you do with the life they've given you.
Daniel F. Boyd -- boyd@cs.buffalo.edu
Department of Computer Science, 226 Bell Hall
Buffalo NY 14260
Office: Trailer A (716) 645-3774
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 16:33:13 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: "Robert A. Book" <rbook@rice.edu>
Subject: Re: Ethnic cleansing
In-Reply-To: <9306161938.AA21943@moe.rice.edu>; from "Bruce White 3807" at Jun
16, 93 2:32 pm
Bruce writes:
> Is it possible that Roosevelt gave orders not to bomb the concentration
> camps?
Roosevelt did not give orders not to bomb the camps. He did, however, turn down requests to order special bombings of the camps. The general policy was to bomb only military targets. Since they did not directly support the German war effort, the camps were not considered military targets. (The bombimg of German cities, such as Dresden and Hamburg, was aimed at military targets such as factories and airports.)
> With regard to the slaughter of civilians in Yugoslavia, what is the > Moslem world doing to aid their brothers who are being murdered?
Iran and Turkey are reported to be smuggling arms to the Bosnian Muslims. The others have merely protested the fact that Israel admitted 150 Bosnian Muslim refugees.
--Robert Book
rbook@rice.edu
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 16:34:35 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: "Robert A. Book" <rbook@rice.edu>
Subject: Re: dealing with the devil
In-Reply-To: <9306161941.AA21985@moe.rice.edu>; from "Richard S. Levy" at Jun
16, 93 2:37 pm
> I think it's a symbolically big mistake to support the radical right by
> buying their books. Most versions of the Protocols are short and, if
> not already in the public domain, safely xeroxable. I doubt anyone can
> or would claim copyright rights. Moreover, you don't want to get onto the Whi
t
> e Power-Revisionist-Liberty Lobby paranoid mailing list, do you?
Getting on the mailing list might not be so bad, since you would find out what your up to. (Use an assumed name, though, in case you ever have political aspirations and the list is leaked. :-) My problem would be giving them money, even to obtain a book or something. The _Protocols_ were written by the Russian Imperial (Czarist) secret police in the 19th century, so by now the copyright is in the public domain.
--Robert Book
rbook@rice.edu
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 10:14:11 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." <SEDELMAN@oavax.csuchico.edu> Subject: Re: Ethnic cleansing
I suggest you look at Marty Gilbert's Auschwitz and the Allies for a definitive analysis of Roosevelt and Churchils role in not attacking Auschwitz. Sam Edelman
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 10:15:28 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jeffrey Shallit <shallit@graceland.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: the meaning of 'anti-semitism'
> From: "Daud R. Matthews" <D03T005@SAKSU00.BITNET>
> Subject: Anti-semetic?
> To: Multiple recipients of list HOLOCAUS <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
>
> According to the Oxford Dictionary (learners edition) semetic refers to of the
> Hebrews and Arabs.
>
> For my part I wonder how all Jews can be semites when some are NOT descended
> from the "Children of Israel" having embraced Judaism through conversion,
> as in the case of many from the xUSSR?
>
You need a better dictionary.
One that spells "anti-semitism" correctly would be a good start.
Consider the following:
'Antisemitism' is a problematic term, first invented in the
1870s by the German journalist Wilhelm Marr to describe
the 'non-confessional' hatred of Jews and Judaism which he
and others like him advocated...
'Antisemitism' -- a term which came into general use as
part of this politically motivated anti-Jewish campaign of
the 1880s -- was never directed against 'Semites' as such....
...As a result, for the last hundred years, the illogical
term 'antisemitsm', which never really meant hatred of
'Semites' (for example, Arabs) at all, but rather hatred of
Jews, has come to be accepted in general usage as denoting
*all* forms of hostility towards Jews and Judaism throughout
history.
-- Robert S. Wistrich, Antisemitism: The Longest Hatred,
Thames Mandarin, 1992.
Jeff Shallit
The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so
much that ain't so.
Josh Billings' Encyclopedia of Wit and Wisdom (1874)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 10:16:57 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jeff Finger <jfinger@CS.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Mr. Matthews' Posting on Jew-Hatred
The entire tenor of this posting was insidiously nasty and patronizing. Whether Mr. Matthews intended it this way or not, I cannot judge.
I do believe that there is something important to glean from his posting, however: The term "anti-semitism" is a euphemism invented by Jew-Haters to lend legitimacy to the hatred of Jews. It is not a term we should use. It sounds so wonderfully genteel! Let's call it what it is: Jew-Hatred. Can anyone imagine the reaction if one said, "Please, don't say that I am bigotted against Blacks. I am simply an anti-Ethiope!"
>> Peace
>> Daud R. Matthews: King Saud University, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
>>
It is interesting to be admonished by someone in *Saudi Arabia* that we have overemphasize Jew-hatred!
Who is paranoid here? The incredible outpouring of hatred toward Jews from the Moslem and in particular the Arab (speaking of imprecise terms) World is obscene indeed.
And now we will no doubt hear tell us about how Arabs have nothing against Jews, only Zionists. Right. The contempt with which Jews were treated in the Arab World in the many centuries prior to 1948 is well documented.
I believe I'm the person referred to who is described as 'wanting to change Michel's feelings'. This is a statement that truly is condescending, one that implies that NOTHING I have ever experienced can ever possibly be as horrible as that experienced by a Holocaust survivor. I beg to differ, actually, as you don't know my family background but taht's besides the point anyway. The point I was attempting to make in my post concerning the constant generalizations made concerning the motivations and actions of entire peoples was simply that while it's necessary to face facts about events, one still should avoid generalizations and stereotyping whenever possible. Too many assumptions are made about people without really looking at them, and I regarded Michel's comments as being emblematic of that. Incidentally, I don't like to be lectured to, and told to 'listen' to so-and-so because "i might learn something.' Judging from the state of this sorry world we inhabit, WE ALL have a lot to learn from each other. As for the woman of Polish descent, I think we all know the roles of the Poles in the holocaust, but do we admit to the American role or the English or the French? We all share the blame collectively in a sense, but there comes a time when the blaming must stop and we must move on, hoping against hope that it never happens again.
lin collette
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 10:21:19 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: lin collette <BI599128@BROWNVM.BITNET> Subject: Re: dealing with the devil
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:37:14 CDT from <U56341@UICVM>
It depends. I deal with the devil all the time in the course of my research, and I'm on about a million mailing lists run by these people because I need to know what's going on, unfiltered through the lenses of groups with axes to grind. I.E., going to the original sources. If these idiots want to waste their money mailing me things and not getting much money back from me, wonderful; it's their postage and their printing costs that are going up, not mine. Sometimes one has to travel into the darkness to get to the light, and after an evening spent filing some of the dreck I've been getting, it definitely seems dark out there.
But then again, I'm doing this for a specific purpose and not because I particularly want to support the groups' activities. I don't expect everyone to operate as I do, but I was pointing out that if someone wants to get the Protocols for long term study and research, then you're better off buying it, and few non-racist groups sell it.
lin collette
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 12:59:48 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Why?
Lucia,
I appreciate your sharing your friend's poems with me, but I was surprised that you addressed me as "Fishman:" . . . I don't mean to be overly sensitive about this, but I doubt you would have felt kindly toward me had I responded to your previous note about anti-Semitism and bigotry (which impressed me with its clarity and good sense) by beginning my note, "Ruedenberg:"
In regard to the poem, I'll read it carefully and make a decision on whether or not I want to keep it on file: I have a batch of poems that came to my attention after I completed editing _Blood to Remember_ and which I will consider for inclusion in a revised edition, should that option be opened to me.
Again, my thanks for writing.
Charles
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 13:01:14 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Daniel Lellouch <FHLELLOU@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL> Subject: Re: Ethnic cleansing
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 16 Jun 1993 16:33:13 CDT from <rbook@rice.edu>
On Wed, 16 Jun 1993 16:33:13 CDT Robert A. Book said:
>
>Roosevelt did not give orders not to bomb the camps. He did, however,
>turn down requests to order special bombings of the camps. The
>general policy was to bomb only military targets. Since they
>did not directly support the German war effort, the camps were not
>considered military targets.
More than that: since the Germans were spending tremendous resources to carry out the 'final solution', it was military worthwhile to let them do.
daniel lellouch
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 13:02:29 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Daniel Lellouch <FHLELLOU@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL> Subject: Re: Anti-semetic?
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:38:32 CDT from <D03T005@SAKSU00>
On Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:38:32 CDT Daud R. Matthews said:
>
>
>The left [Jews] have organized the Synogogue in Sarajaveo as an emergency
>aid centre for the Muslims, thanx to them. Apparently, this is partially in
>gratitude for what the Muslims did for them when the Nazi's came.
>
a more correct statement would be: "for what some individual Muslims did"
daniel lellouch
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 13:04:48 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: Eliot Friedman <ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil>
Subject: Re: the meaning of 'anti-semitism'
In-Reply-To: <9306171126.aa29776@thama1.apgea.army.mil> from "Jeffrey Shallit"
at Jun 17, 93 10:15:28 am
Daud asks>
>
>For my part I wonder how all Jews can be semites when some are NOT descended
>from the "Children of Israel" having embraced Judaism through conversion,
>as in the case of many from the xUSSR?
>
I doubt that many xUSSR Jews can trace their origin back to conversion. A religion so widely persecuted in Russian history would hardly seem attractive to potential converts. Moreover, Judaism, unlike Islam, does not seek converts.
Your statement is reflective of Arab propaganda that attempts to convince the world that [non-semitic] European Jews have no valid claim to any territory in the Middle East.
-Eliot
ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 16:11:07 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: HANFTS@conrad.appstate.edu Subject: Re: Anti-semetic?
I short reply to Daniel F Boyd about the origins of Semite or semitic. It is
from 19th century racial/linguistic/ethnic theory which posits all peoples
and therefore language groups descending from the sons of Noah, egro semites
and semetic languages from his son Shem, Hemetic from Ham, etc...
For those unfamiliar with it, the Oxford Etomological Dictionary is a
wonderful tool.
Sheldon Hanft, (Hanfts@Appstate.edu)
History Dept.
Appalachian State University
Boone, NC 28608
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 16:15:19 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jerry Rosenberg <JROSENBE@UA1VM.UA.EDU> Subject: bombings
A good resource on the role of Roosevelt and Churchill in not ordering bombings of the camps can be found in While Six Million Died and in the Wyman book the Abandonment of the Jews. A survivor friend of mine from AuschwitzBirkenau, told me she could hear the planes and bombs falling on other parts of of the Auschwitz complex, less then a mile of where she was held and it would have been very easy to bomb the gas chambers and cremetoria. Transcripts of ground to air messages during some of these raids indicate that requests were made to bomb the camps and the pilots were told that was not their mission nor was it current military policy. It must be remembered that during those years anti-semitism was very strong in the US and members of Roosevelts cabinet strongly urged him not to appear to be going to war to save Jewish lives but to defeat a terrible enemy, who when defeated, would end the destruction of the Jews. The freedom of information act has made available many documents that paint a very freightening picture of the allies during this period. The military issue becomes very disturbing considering that the allies had dominance in the air which would have allowed the camp bombings to be done with no real threat to the pilots and their crews.
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 16:19:53 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: lin collette <BI599128@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Mr. Matthews' Posting on Jew-Hatred
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu,
17 Jun 1993 10:16:57 CDT from <jfinger@CS.Stanford.EDU>
I, too, found Mr. Matthews' posting problematic because of his characterization of Christianity as the most intolerant religion. As a Christian, yeah, hell, I admit the Church IS intolerant, but submit that this is the case in every other faith as well. I don't know of any church that doesn't believe that it's the one true faith and that aids the development of intolerance against other ways of following whatever God you follow. Since I deal with people from a myriad of faiths, I have noticed the same intolerance directed against each other no matter what faith one's of--pagan, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.
I would add that Islam is not only unhappy with Judaism, but that Iran is making a concerted effort to eliminate Bah'a'is from its country. But then I guess that's not an example of intolerance, right?
lin collette
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 16:22:35 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Bruce White 3807 <bw@ncrtory.TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com> Subject: Another new mail list
JIWD is a newsletter which will be sent out every three months. This is text of academic articles written by known authors on the subject of world politics in general and on Israel and the middle-east in particular.
Here is an example of articles written:
Vol 6, Bulletin 1, March 1993
1 "Demilitarization is No Answer"
Bernard Smith
2 "Threats in the Post-Cold War Age"
Sherman, Sir Alfred
3 "Reviving "the Concept": Implications for Israel's Security"
Bernes, Prof Louis Rene
This newsletter is published by The Jerusalem Institute for Western Defense headed by Yohanan Ramati in Jerusalem.
To Subscribe:
Mail: listserv@jerusalem1.datasrv.co.il
Subject:
Text: sub jiwd firstname lastname
Note: This is a "receive-only" distribution list.
Jerusalem One Network Manager: Zvi Lando lando@brachot.jct.ac.il
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 16:23:49 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Kenneth.Waltzer" <21409MGR@msu.edu> Subject: Re: Ethnic cleansing
In-Reply-To: The letter of Thursday, 17 June 1993 2:03pm ET
If memory serves, Roosevelt was not directly involved with operational decisions about bombing or not bombing camps. Rather the decisionmaking was taken in the War Department and the persons involved included John J. McCloy and others. See David Wyman's book, The Abandonment of the Jews.
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 16:25:12 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." <SEDELMAN@oavax.csuchico.edu> Subject: Re: Anti-semetic?
I should like to point out to people on the list that it was from these same Bosnian Moslems that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, ally of Hitler, drew his Moslem fighting unit which was involved in many actions against Jews and fought with units of the SS. The actions of the Jewish community to help Bosnian Moslems has nothing to do with any gratitude for actions in the past (although there are stories of many Moslem families protecting their Jewish neighbors.) It has to do with acting toward others as we would have them act toward us. Sam Edelman
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 17:02:15 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Zvi Krumbein <krumbein@thama1.apgea.army.mil>
Subject: Re: the meaning of 'anti-semitism'
In-Reply-To: <9306171415.aa19426@thama1.apgea.army.mil> from "Eliot Friedman"
at Jun 17, 93 01:04:48 pm
Eliot Friedman writes:
>
> Daud asks>
>
> >
> >For my part I wonder how all Jews can be semites when some are NOT descended
> >from the "Children of Israel" having embraced Judaism through conversion,
> >as in the case of many from the xUSSR?
> >
>
> I doubt that many xUSSR Jews can trace their origin back to conversion.
> A religion so widely persecuted in Russian history would hardly seem
> attractive to potential converts. Moreover, Judaism, unlike Islam, does
> not seek converts.
Actually, there is evidence (this is second hand) that there was an ongoing
competition in the old days. Whole towns used to convert to Judaism.
This is brought as a possible explanation for the particularly virulent strain
of Russian Anti-Semitism. (Anti-Semitism proper, of course, needs no
explanation.)
> Your statement is reflective of Arab propaganda that attempts to convince
> the world that [non-semitic] European Jews have no valid claim to any
> territory in the Middle East.
>
> -Eliot
> ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil
Actually, I think that you guys are too hard on him, considering where he is
coming from.
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 17:03:13 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Brad Cox <bcox@gmu.edu> Subject: Re: dealing with the devil
I'm virtually certain I saw the Protocols somewhere in the "obi" directory on world.std.com. Try the "rants" subdirectory. Whoever tracks it down there should post precise instructions.
approximate instructions:
ftp world.std.com
login: ftp
password: youremailaddress
cd obi/rants
get filename
--
Brad Cox; bcox@gmu.edu; 703 968 8229 Voice 703 968 8798 Fax
George Mason Program on Social and Organizational Learning
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 17:04:31 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET
Subject: Re: Why?
Date sent: 17-JUN-1993
Dear Charles -
forgive me for addressing my posting with your last name. Actually, at first I thought I would post to you privately, but then I thought others on the list might like to read it as well.
I had intended to write your first name, but as it was late, by the time I finished typing out the poem, I neglected to go back to the beginning and correct it. I can imagine it looked a bit strange !!
Thanks for the compliment on my other posting. Forgive my sloppy e-mail manners :-(.
Lucia.
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 09:50:01 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET Subject: Re: Anti-semitism
Date sent: 17-JUN-1993
Lin -
>implies that NOTHING I have ever experienced can ever possibly be as horrible >as that experienced by a Holocaust survivor.
I did not imply any such thing. I don't compare vicimization in terms of how "horrible" it is. I simply stated that you have not experienced what he did.
>the state of this sorry world we inhabit, WE ALL have a lot to learn... >We all share the blame collectively in a sense, >but there comes a time when the blaming must stop and we must move on...
I'm not sure who this collective "we" is that you presume. To tell someone who has experienced a profound trauma (there are many kinds...) to "move on" when they are sharing something about themselves, is an act of not listening. It's not that easy, and in some cases not possible.
I can relate to your impatience and anger. I can't relate to your need to spread "the blame" all around (whatever that is), or to see this world as such a "sorry" place, or to engross yourself in hate literature. Why don't you just move on? (it's easier said than done)....
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 09:53:45 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: "Robert A. Book" <rbook@rice.edu>
Subject: Re: Anti-semetic?
In-Reply-To: <9306161943.AA22030@moe.rice.edu>; from "Daud R. Matthews" at Jun
16, 93 2:38 pm
>
> According to the Oxford Dictionary (learners edition) semetic refers to of the
> Hebrews and Arabs.
>
> For my part I wonder how all Jews can be semites when some are NOT descended
> from the "Children of Israel" having embraced Judaism through conversion,
> as in the case of many from the xUSSR?
It is true that the term "semitic" (not semEtic) refers to Hebrews and Arabs. It can also be taken to include Ethiopians, since they speak a semitic language (Amharic).
The term "antisemitic" (sometimes spelled "Anti-Semitic"), however, does not refer to opposition to Semites generally, but only to Jews. Remember that a word's meaning is determined by it's use, not by it's derivation. "Antisemitic" is never used to indicate hatred of Arabs or Ethiopians; it is used only for hatred of Jews.
The term was first used in the late 19th century, when a German political organization called the "Anti-Judaism League" changes its name to the "Anti-Semitism League" since they thougt that name sounded In the book "Why the Jews? The Reasons for Antisemitism", authors Dennis Prager and Joseph Telushkin make a point to explain that they spell it "antisemitism" rather than "Anti-Semitism", since the hyphen and the capitals imply, incorrectly, that there is some entity "Semitism" to which "Anti-Semites" are opposed.
The fact that some Jews may not be biologically descended from the "original" Hebrews is irrelevant, since those who profess antisemitism are generally opposed to or express hatred of all Jews, regardless of their genetic origins. This even true of Hitler, who, despite his emphasis on genetics, sent converted Jews to the extermination camps along with born Jews. It is interesting to note that his "genetic" definition of Jews worked only one way -- one who was born Jewish and converted, or was decended from Jews (even one great-grandparent) was considered a Jew for the purpose of extermination, but one who was born a non-Jew and converted to Judaism was also considered a Jew for the purpose of extermination.
In short, whether all Semites are Jews or all Jews are Semites is irrelevant. The word "antisemitism" refers to hatred of Jews, and this hatred has always been directed against Jews, whatever their origins, and never against other Semites.
--Robert Book
Rice University
rbook@rice.edu
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 09:56:41 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Peter Scott U Sask Library Systems Dept <scottp@herald.usask.ca> Subject: Holocaust Resource Center at Keene State College
In-Reply-To: (null)
This is posted for information only:
HOLOCAUST RESOURCE CENTER information
LOCATION: Mason Library 2nd floor
HOURS: Mon.-Fri. 10-4 through June; or by appointment
STAFF: Charles A. Hildebrandt, Director, (603) 358-2520
Michelle J. Nash, Assistant, (603) 358-2490
The HOLOCAUST RESOURCE CENTER is open to all. Its purpose is to
make available the lessons of the Holocaust in the hope that such a catastrophe will not happen again to the Jews or any group of people.
Please feel free to come in to browse, to do research, or to inquire about the services of the Center. Holocaust Center materials do not circulate. You may use them in the Center anytime it is open or by appointment.
Materials for the Center are purchased with voluntary, tax
deductible contributions. No funding is provided by Keene State
College nor any public agency.
........
I have no connection with this center
scottp@herald.usask.ca
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 12:54:20 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Chris Lasdauskas <u883550@geo.geol.utas.edu.au> Subject: Re: Anti-semitism
In-Reply-To: <9306171523.AA17189@geo.geol.utas.edu.au>
Chris Lasdauskas _--_|\ Email : u883550@geo.geol.utas.edu.au Dep't of Geography & / Oz \ Phone : +61 02 202 484 (fax 202 989) Environmental Studies \_.--._/ GPO Box 252C, Hobart, University of Tasmania V TAS, Australia, 7000
On Thu, 17 Jun 1993, lin collette wrote:
...
> don't know my family background but taht's besides the point anyway. The
> point I was attempting to make in my post concerning the constant generaliza-
> tions made concerning the motivations and actions of entire peoples was simply
> that while it's necessary to face facts about events, one still should avoid
> generalizations and stereotyping whenever possible. Too many assumptions are
...
> from each other. As for the woman of Polish descent, I think we all know the
> roles of the Poles in the holocaust, but do we admit to the American role or
...
>
> lin collette
OK, this is not a flame, but I think you have just fallen into the trap you are pointing out: "we all know the role of the poles in the holocaust". What exactly was this role which ALL the Poles performed? A large proportion of my maternal grandmother's family died during the Holocaust, including in Auschwitz and Dachau (where she was), they were non-Jewish Poles. A lot of comments on this mailing list have implied the Holocaust only affected Jews; this was not so. The Nazis were killing off Poles, Gypsies, Russian POWs, and basically any "half-humans" who they had in their power. Perhaps the major difference was that they were using the Poles and so on as an economic tool so long as they were needed, but having fullfilled that need they would be "surplus to requirements" and would be "disposed of" to make Lebensraum for the Master race.
I'm not claiming that there were no Polish antisemites, or even that Polish society didn't mistreat Jews (ghettoes etc existed before the Nazis came), but to broadly suggest that all Poles helped the Nazis destroy the Jews is incorrect. Certainly many people would have been too scared to do much to stop them, but this applied to many Jews who knew full well what was happening but hoped it would bypass them.
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 12:58:17 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Ethnic cleansing
Daniel,
Your comment gave me shivers--so cynical and probably accurate as well-- but do you have hard evidence that this was, in fact, the operative stance taken by the Allies?
Charles Fishman
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 15:15:48 CDT
Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
From: lin collette <BI599128@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Anti-semitism
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri,
18 Jun 1993 12:54:20 CDT from <u883550@geo.geol.utas.edu.au>
You're right-I did fall into the trap. What I should have said was that we know what happened in Poland and other parts of Europe, and we know that a good many of the Poles (and others) helped the Nazis with their final solution. But we also know that there are many of every ethnic background who helped to rescue those in danger from the Nazis. I truly believe that this is what those who want to categorize entire ethnic groups as anti-semitic forget. I do apologize; I wrote in haste and said something that did not clearly say was I did mean. As it is, my mother was born and raised in Germany during WWII and was one of those who helped get the persecuted out of Germany (her family was involved in this, I think), so that's one reason I get a bit steamed when I see whole groups flamed for aiding and abetting the holocaust.
Incidentally, in reference to Lucia's comment concerning my work: thanks for belittling it. Didn't know I was obsessed with Nazi groups, but I'll have to consult my psychiatrist, won't I?
lin collette
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 15:19:08 CDT Reply-To: T.A.McAllister@mailer.leeds.ac.uk Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Alec McAllister <ECL6TAM@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk> Subject: Anti-semetic/semitic/semantic
As a terrible pedant about spelling, I thought I should do penance by trying to lighten the tone a little with a story, before we end up flaming each other for typing errors.
In the First World War, Bud, a British Jewish private, was persecuted by his sergeant. "Sergeant Flanagan's anti-semantic," said Bud, "He hates Jews, but can't speak his own language well enough to say so. But I'll get my own back: I'll make it so that people want to laugh every time they hear his name."
He did it, too: he adopted the stage-name of Bud Flanagan and became one of Britain's best-loved comedians.
Alec.
Alec McAllister
Arts Computing Development Officer
Computing Service
University of Leeds
LS2 9JT
tel 0532 335399
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1993 16:42:59 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET Subject: Re: Anti-semitism
Date sent: 18-JUN-1993
Lin - you said...
>...we know that a good
>many of the Poles (and others) helped the Nazis...But
>we also know that there are many of every ethnic background who helped to res-
>cue...
Are you suggesting that about an equal (vague, unspecified) number of individuals helped the Nazis on the one hand, and helped the victims on the other? That might actually be an interesting hypothesis to research, but I don't think it's what you intended to say.
>As it is, my mother was born and raised in Germany during WWII and was >one of those who helped get the persecuted out of Germany (her family was in- >volved in this, I think), so that's one reason I get a bit steamed when I see >whole groups flamed for aiding and abetting the holocaust.
I should think that for precisely this reason, you would understand that people who acted as your mother were a minority within a majority comprised of passive indifference or active guilt. What are you steamed about? When people speak of "groups" they refer to the majority, not the exceptions. If more had acted as your mother did, we might have seen a very different turn of events...
>Incidentally, in reference to Lucia's comment concerning my work: thanks for >belittling it.
I'm sorry if my comments came across that way. I did not mean to belittle your work. On the contrary, to be "obsessed" by something (and I didn't say that, you did), is to make it very large and very important indeed. But since you bring it up, I think that 'obsession' characterizes quite accurately the involvement of many who have been touched by the Holocaust in one way or another (myself included), at least for a while. Whether this is something good or bad, I don't know. We all have our way of coping with the material emotionally. The way you described your feelings, after having spent an evening of filing the literature you collect, struck me. I was simply making the point that to tell someone or everyone that it's time to "move on" is glib
Why don't you tell us something about your work? what ARE you doing?
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1993 16:46:41 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: BERMAN E-MAIL <berman@mars.senecac.on.ca> Subject: Re: Anti-semitism
To Chris Lasdauskas,
I am sorry for the losses of your maternal grandmother, but I find too often that people (non jews more than jews) tend to attempt to diminish the scale of the Holocaust by saying things like "well they killed Gypsies, POW's Homosexuals, etc... too, it wasn't just the jews..."
There was only one FINAL SOLUTION. This was aimed as a direct attempt to rid all of German-occupied Europe of JEWS. There were attrocities committed against other groups, but NOTHING on the same scale as the Jews. People who opposed/did not cooperate with the Nazies, if they were killed, it was for that reason (Not that I condone that either). But there were millions of Jews just minding their own business and the Nazis murdered them for something they had no control over. It wasn't their lifestyle, or their politics, it was the religion of their parents, grandparents or even great grandparents. Just as it is wrong to blame the grandson of a Nazi for what his grandparents did,
how can you kill a baby because it's mother is Jewish? Well, it was done. Jews are the ONLY culture that were targeted on the scale of millions. Do not deny or belittle that.
HAL BERMAN
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 08:36:30 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: "Michael M. Miller" <NU021140@VM1.NoDak.EDU> Subject: Re: Shtetl help needed
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 07 Jun 93 15:58:55 CDT from <LSCHWART@NDSUVM1>
A person to contact would be Daniel Schlyter, Family History Center, West Temple, Salt Lake City, UT 84150. Sugguest to Mr. Schlyter if he could forward your letter to the person who specializes with Galicia.
Michael M. Miller, Germans from Russia Bibliographer North Dakota State University Libraries, Fargo
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 11:30:51 -0500 Reply-To: Jim Mott <jimmott@spss.com> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jim Mott <jimmott@spss.com> Subject: How to reach Online Library Catalogs
prepared by Jackie Kent, SUNY Cortland
kentj@snycorva
TELNET is a command you issue when logged on to
your mainframe. IBM mainframe users may have to
issue GETDISK TELNET command first. Thus for
example Berkeley:
exit from your MAIL system to mainframe prompt
TELNET GopAC.Berkeley.edu is what you type...
University of California, Berkeley - GLADIS
Telnet to GopAC.Berkeley.edu
Press return for welcome screen
Type quit to exit
Emory University Libraries
Telnet EMUVM1.CC.EMORY.EDU
Clear screen
Type and enter Dial DVTAM
Type and enter library
To exit choose option #4
enter cssf to logoff
Harvard University - HOLLIS
Telnet hollis.harvard.edu (128.103.60.31)
Press return
The next screen begins 'HARVARD UNIVERSITY/OFFICE FOR
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY."
Type hollis after the prompt and press enter
Welcome to Hollis should display
University of Illinois/Urbana-Champaign - ILLINET
Telnet to Garcon.cso.uiuc.edu
Enter lcs at the login prompt
Indiana University Libraries
Telnet to iuis.ucs.indiana.edu
After identifying terminal type, type guest at the
prompt for user ID
(Can get user ID by calling the Bloomington help desk
at 812 855-8506)
At the "Indiana University Network" screen, select
Information Online by typing 3 followed by enter.
University of Iowa libraries
Telnet oasis.uiowa.edu
Enter terminal type at prompt
Type 1 for Oasis access and press return
University of Michigan
Telnet to CTS.MERIT.EDU
enter mirlyn at the prompt "which host?"
enter a terminal type
choose MCAT from the menu
New York Public Library
Telnet to nyplgate.nypl.org
Login as nypl
Enter password nypl
Princeton University Library
Telnet to pucable.princeton.edu
Press enter
type call 500
University of Texas Austin - UTCAT
Telnet utcat.utexas.edu
Blank screen will appear with no prompt
Press return once ( or more if needed)
At the GO prompt, press return
At the ENTER TERMINAL TYPE prompt, type vt100
Follow instructions on the screen
University of Wisconsin
Telnet nls.adp.wisc.edu
Enter terminal type
select NLS from the menu
Press enter to search the Madison catalog OR
type MIL and press enter for the Milwaukee catalog
Yale University - ORBIS
Telnet orbis.yale.edu
When prompt appears, enter to connect to ORBIS
Cornell University
Telnet cornellc.cit.cornell.edu OR
tn3270 cornellc.cit.cornell.edu
At logon prompt, hit enter or clear
At command screen, type library and press enter
There are two directories that are available through ftp and are
updated periodically. One is maintained by Art St. George, INTERNET ACCESSIBLE LIBRARY CATALOGS AND DATABASES and can be downloaded with the ftp command from ariel.unm.edu. CD to library and the file is called INTERNET.LIBRARY (ascii). The second is by Billy Barron and titled UNT'S ACCESSING ON-LINE BIBLIOGRAPHIC DATABASES and can be downloaded from ftp.unt.edu. The directory is Library and the file name is Libraries.txt (ascii).
Two other accesses that might be tried are HNSource and, if available, Hytelnet. To access HNSource, telnet hnsource.cc.ukans.edu. Login with history and a number of choices are made available, including access to numerous libraries. If a system offers hytelnet, type hytelnet at the $ prompt (vax) and the screens are self-explanatory.
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 11:35:53 -0500 Reply-To: Jim Mott <jimmott@spss.com> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jim Mott <jimmott@spss.com> Subject: Re: Bombings
(From: holo%kg6kf.ampr.org@uicvm.uic.edu (Holocaust Center--San Francisco)
For discussions between US and UK governments regarding bombing of Auschwitz
and other camps see the well documented report in Bernard Wasserstein's,
Britain and the Jews of Europe, 1939-1945, published in NY by Oxford Univeristy
Press 1979
ZZ
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 11:36:21 -0500 Reply-To: Jim Mott <jimmott@spss.com> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jim Mott <jimmott@spss.com> Subject: Re: Ethnic Cleansing
(From: lou%kg6kf.ampr.org@uicvm.uic.edu (Louis de Groot)
Suggest you also look at Britain and the Jews of Europe 1939-1945 by Bernard Wasserstein for cables between US Sttate Department and Britain's Foreign Office regarding hesitation to fight "this war for the Jews" . Bernard Wassersteins' work was published by Oxford Univ Press in 1979 and contains a lot of information about the US diplomacy with respect to the Jews during the same years.
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 12:58:16 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jerry Rosenberg <JROSENBE@UA1VM.UA.EDU> Subject: auschwitz bombing
Peter et.al.: I had been in the middle of posting the complete text of a letter from John J. McCloy, Assistant Sect. of War to Mr. John W. Pehle, Executive Director of the War Refugee Board, dated November 1944 and unclassified on Aoc. 12, 1965 when my computer informed me the mail had been dumped and was lost. The basic points are that precision heavy bombing would be necessary, the targets is beyond the maximum range of aircraft located in the UK, France and Italy, it would be a hazardous round-trip, and at this particular time in the war, the desruction of the industrial capability was of greater importance and the ultimate solution to the problems of the concentration and extermination camps will be the earliest possible victory over Germany. The bottom line was that the War Department decided it was not the time to take up the bombings of the camps. This letter was written in response to a letter from Pehle concerning two eye-witness reports on Auschwitx-Birkenau. The letterhead is War Department, Office of the Assistant Secretary, Washington D.C.
I am trying to digest the mission report concerning a flight to bomb
Oswiecim, dated 13 Sept.,1944 that confirms that bombing went on
around the camp as heard by my survivor friend even though the
argument was being presented that the camps could not be bombed.
It clearly appears that there were no logistical problems, just
possibly some moral and ethical ones.
Jerry
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 16:06:54 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Peter Scott U Sask Library Systems Dept <scottp@herald.usask.ca> Subject: Re: How to reach Online Library Catalogs
In-Reply-To: (null)
> If a system offers hytelnet, type hytelnet > at the $ prompt (vax) and the screens are self-explanatory.
You can try out the latest version of HYTELNET by telnet to access.usask.ca login: hytelnet (lowercase). This is just a browser for non-U of S users.
Peter Scott....Manager, Small Systems....University of Saskatchewan Libraries
scottp@herald.usask.ca Phone 306-966-5920 FAX 306-966-6040
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 09:30:23 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: RICHARD JENSEN <CAMPBELLD@APSU.BITNET> Subject: H-Net Announces 13 Scholarly History E-Lists
H-Net Announces 13 scholarly lists in history June 25, 1993
H-Net: History On-Line Dramatic changes are underway in the electronic communications infrastructure worldwide. Academics are beginning to take advantage of the new opportunities. H-Net is an initiative of the History department at the University of Illinois, Chicago, to assist historians to go on-line, using their personal computers and the Internet and Bitnet electronic communications networks.
H-Net is sponsoring a series of electronic discussion groups or "lists." Subscribers automatically receive messages in their computer mailboxes. These messages can be saved, discarded, copied, printed out, or relayed to someone else. The lists are like newsletters that are published daily, and which carry announcements from the editor, and letters and mini-essays from the subscribers. Currently our largest list is HOLOCAUS with 290 subscribers in 15 countries; they receive an average of 5 messages a day. Membership is open to any historian or graduate student, and is free. Each list is moderated by a historian and has a board of editors. The moderators control the flow of messages and reject those unsuitable for a scholarly discussion group.
The primary purpose of each list is to enable historians to easily communicate current research and teaching interests; to discuss new approaches, methods and tools of analysis; to share information on access to library catalogs and other electronic databases; and to test new ideas and share comments on current historiography. Each list is especially interested in methods of teaching history to graduate and undergraduate students in diverse settings. The lists feature dialogues in the discipline. They publish syllabi, course outlines, class handouts, bibliographies, listings of new sources, guides to online library catalogs and archives, and reports on new software, datasets and cd-roms. Subscribers write in with questions, comments, and reports, and sometimes with mini-essays of a page or two. Most of the lists have no chronological or geographical limits.
The H-Net lists currently in operation are:
H-Urban Urban history
H-Rural Rural and agricultural history
H-Women Women's history
H-Diplo Diplomatic history, foreign affairs,
international relations
HOLOCAUS Holocaust studies; anti-semitism; related
themes of modern history
H-South US South
H-CivWar US Civil War
H-LatAm Latin American History
H-Law Legal and Constitutional history
H-Ethnic American ethnic & immigration history
by July 4:
H-AmStdy American Studies
H-Ideas Intellectual history
beginning fall 1993:
IEAHC-Net American colonial history; sponsored by
Institute of Early American History & Culture
at Williamsburg
Other lists are being discussed; to volunteer as editor or
member of an editorial board, please send a note to
H-NET@uicvm.
To subscribe: send this message to LISTSERV@UICVM
sub xxxxxx Firstname Surname, Yourschool
where xxxxxx = list name; for example,
sub H-Urban Leslie Jones, Northern Vermont U
[ the Internet address = LISTSERV@uicvm.uic.edu]
Each list will publish (at no cost) announcements of
jobs, fellowships, conferences, conventions, new books, new journals, new e-lists, and the like. To post an announcement to all the H-Net lists, send an email copy:
by Bitnet to H-NET@uicvm
or by Internet to H-NET@uicvm.uic.edu
or by CompuServe to >INTERNET:H-NET@UICVM.UIC.EDU
or send a fax copy to (312) 996-6377, care of H-Net.
Each list will publish book reviews. To volunteer as a
reviewer send a note to the editor at @uicvm (For example, H-URBAN@uicvm or H-LatAm@uicvm). To submit books for review, or for other paper correspondence, write to
H-Net room 723 SEO
Dept of History m/c 198
851 S Morgan St
Chicago IL 60607-7049
[our phone is: 312-996-3141 our fax: 312-996-6377]
H-Net will be offering one-day training workshops at
history conventions and at history departments across the country. It has been endorsed by the American Historical Association, the Organization of American Historians and the Southern Historical Association, and has received funding from the American Council of Learned Societies. H-Net is directed by Richard Jensen, professor of history at UIC
u08946@uicvm voice: 615-552-9923
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 09:34:02 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: AJHYMAN@UTOROISE.BITNET Subject: Emergency - History Dept. Under Attack
David Levine and Harold Troper were each hired, reviewed, tenured
and promoted three times - from lecturer to full professor of
education - at OISE. They have taught courses in the history of
education and supervised these in the history of education.
Because all OISE students
eceive their degrees from the School of
Graduate Studies of the University of Toronto, the OISE
administration has always been required to seek and to receive
approval for their courses by certifying that Professors Levine and
Troper are specialized teachers and researchers in education. In this
regard, it must be emphasized that the courses taught by Professors
Levine and Troper have always been approved by successive OISE
administrations, included in the OISE Bulletins, counted towards
students' degree programs, and ratified by the University of Toronto.
The dissertations they supervised were all certified by OISE
administrations to be in education; this has always been
warranted by the University of Toronto School of Graduate Studies.
Until this sudden atmosphere of crisis, there has never been any
question that Levine and Troper are anything but professors of
education.
Professors Levine and Troper have scholarly interests that are fundamental to educational understanding. Who would argue that issues of family, culture, class, immigration, ethnicity and race - subjects at the core of Levine's and Troper's teaching and research - are not central to education?
The OISE administration's assertion is being advanced to fire two eminently-qualified professors with long lists of publications and awards. It seems to be a most peculiar response toward academic excellence from a graduate school of education. If this mindless administrative blunder succeeds then it will diminish both the academic traditions and contractual obligations tied to tenure, seniority and rank.
You can help stop this action by voicing your opinion to Chair of the
Ad Hoc Committee on Retrenchment: Sami Najm
either by writing in person
c/o the Offic
of the Director, OISE
252 Bloor Street West,
Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 1V6
or by fax at 416-926-4725
or by e-mail to GRADSTUDY@UTorOISE.bitnet
with cc to Arthur Kruger, Director: AKRUGER@oise.on.ca
and cc Dwight Boyd, Dept. Chair: D_BOYD@oise.on.ca
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 13:26:23 -0500 Reply-To: Jim Mott <jimmott@spss.com> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jim Mott <jimmott@spss.com> Subject: Announcment of interest
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
X X X CALL FOR MANUSCRIPTS X X X X _HISTORY_MICROCOMPUTER_REVIEW_ was founded in 1985 to X X promote computer-assisted history instruction. _HMR_ X
X reaches a worldwide audience of history teachers interested X X in using the new electronic tools to reach today's students X X in ways that promote the imaginative reconstruction of the X X past, the acquisition of verbal and cognitive skills, and X X an interest in the application of historical information to X
X evaluate present reality. X X X X In eight and one-half years of publication, _HMR_ has X
X published numerous articles and approximately 250 reviews X X of books and software programs. _HMR_ reviews books and X
X software of potential use for secondary school social X X studies teachers or university history professors. X X X X For information on submitting articles to _HMR_, write: X
X James B. M. Schick, Department of History, Pittsburg State X X University, Pittsburg, Kansas 66762. FAX: 316-232-7515. X
X X X If you wish to be included among those assigned to X X review software or to solicit a review of a specific X
X program, write: Professor Leslie Gene Hunter, Department X X of History, Texas A&M University--Kingsville, Kingsville, X
X Texas 78363. Internet: KFLGH00@TAIMVS1.TAIU.EDU X X Bitnet: KFLGH00@TAIMVS1.BITNET X X X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 15:18:20 -0500 Reply-To: Jim Mott <jimmott@spss.com> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Jim Mott <jimmott@spss.com> Subject: this is a test
To Bob Pasker:
This is a test. Let me know if you receive this.
Jim Mott
jimmott@spss.com
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1993 09:12:46 PDT Reply-To: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET> From: Bob Pasker <rbp@netcom.com> Subject: The Jerusalem One Platform Gopher
Use your gopher client to attach to this service at jerusalem1.datasrv.co.il
MK Ovadia Eli - Lt. Chairman of The Kenneset (Likud)
MK Avigdor Kahalani (Labour)
MK Dahlia Itzchak (Labour)
Joesph Van Zwarren - Min. of Science and Technology
Benyamin HaLevy - General Manager JINC
Zvi Lando - Network Manager
The Jerusalem One Network
The JICN has taken the initiative of establishing a foundation to fund the maintenance of Jewish networking activities from Jerusalem. The foundation is headed by Israeli businessmen, Members of Kenesset, other key public figures, and has already gotten significant funding to launch the establishment of an information - server. This server will work in close contact with the Israel project at the NyserNet server in New York and with similar motivated individuals and projects to advance the goal of strengthening the Jewish community world-wide.
Our hope is that, in the near future, to have at our facilities the resources to initiate a varied spectrum of Jewish services and to allow those who wish to initiate such services to do so.
In these beginning months of our activity, we plan to initiate such services which we feel are within our reach. With this in mind, we have as our main goal the Jewish university students and Jewish high schools who will soon be the leaders of our people.
We have the following goals:
throughout the Jewish Global Community.
them interesting and important Jewish information services which will strengthen their roots to the Jewish People and their contact with Israel.
information about Israel, Zionism and Jewish culture and sciences, information tailored to their interests and demands.
promotional information which will enable a Jew anywhere in the world to know how he can find any information that interests him and to allow easy access to these services.
programs that will encourage them to actively participate in the project.
Jewish people and students to connect to the Internet and to use our services.
as a reference and information center from where they too can learn about the Jewish People and Israel
Thank-you,
Zvi Lando
Jerusalem One Network Manager
lando@jerusalem1.datasrv.co.il